Joypod....is it essential.

[Jase PTRC]

Hello i have posted in the technical forum asking about bipods but maybe i was too vague. So i will ask a different question here.
To be successful in FTR is it pretty much essential to be using a JoyPod or can you still be at the pointy end without having a Coaxial joystic.
Im hesitant to make the jump to a joypod.

[mike H]

I doubt it,having said that,I am going to try one on my new FTR rifle.

[mike H]

I also should have said that I am not at the pointy end.

[Jase PTRC]

I also should have said that I am not at the pointy end.

Neither am i Mike but i would like to get there

[GrahamW]

In the recent QRA Queens, FTR was won by a non joypod user.

So I guess the simple answer is..... no it's not essential.

What is essential is that you are comfortable and confident with the bipod you are using.
That goes for all the equipment you use.

Personally I'd concentrate on getting my rifle shooting quarter MOA groups off a rest then look at bipod options.

The joystick might make it easier but you still gotta know how to steer it.

8-)

[SunnyCoast 5r]

I shoot at North Arm....wind reading skills seem to be the main game not the bipod!!!

[Jase PTRC]

I shoot at North Arm....wind reading skills seem to be the main game not the bipod!!!

Lower Light where i shoot is pretty bad, its nick name is the "house of pain" especially in the warmer months we get a fishtailing head wind sometimes 20 to 25 mph so i get that Wind reading is paramount.

[Razer]

I only shoot with a Davis bi-pod as being an old hand and never, ever agreeing to pedestal rests being used in F Standard, stick to my principles.
Unless you are shooting free recoil, you don't want the left arm wandering around in front of your correct position!
Some may find a joypod OK to use but I believe that this compromises your positioning regarding recoil, so to me it would be another issue to take your focus of more important aspects such as mentioned, that is, wind and mirage.
I have no elevation problems with a bi-pod as I always ensure that it is sitting firmly on the ground with a smooth track to move on (as they all slide back a fraction) unless you have the feet with the added slide inbuilt. Even with these, you must ensure that you have the feet level, particularly in corresponding to direction you are shooting otherwise when the rifle recoils the front will rise, fall or cant depending on just how the feet are placed. Only my 2 cents worth.

[SunnyCoast 5r]

This has been a very interesting thread (thanks Jace).

I have seen quite a few different ways to setup on the mound with bipods and wonder if the boards/mats/carpet that are used might be more critical than I realised. At the moment I just plonk mine on the grass...and I have to adjust mid-string...hmmmm

I should also add that when I first joined fclass just over a year ago I was quite critical of the Seb joystick as I felt that it was too close to the rest systems used in open & std. Still think it is a beautiful piece of engineering but too much money for me.

The shooters I have seen use them have been pretty handy and might have shot just as well off other bipods...hard to know.

At our 303 shoot this year one gentleman shot very nicely over a hessian sack filled with sand (not FTR compliant but just making the point that cream ends up at the top most days). I like the idea of FTR because I think watching a heavy-recoiling 308 being shot well is a hoot. And perhaps he with the biggest budget may not necessarily win.

[scott/r]

Even though I shoot t/r, I have a set up for my rifle to shoot ftr as well. One thing I have noticed that makes a huge difference to how your rifle behaves is the weight distribution from the bi pod to the rear bag. If the muzzle is pointing up in the air, I've found that the thing will jump all over the place. But if packed up the rear bag to get the barrel as close to level as possible, it tracked really well. So, personally, I think that if your rifle isn't set right in the first place, your going to be behind the eight ball to start with. And it won't matter what bi pod you are using.

And then there's the wind and mirage.

[Tim L]

Even though I shoot t/r, I have a set up for my rifle to shoot ftr as well. One thing I have noticed that makes a huge difference to how your rifle behaves is the weight distribution from the bi pod to the rear bag. If the muzzle is pointing up in the air, I've found that the thing will jump all over the place. But if packed up the rear bag to get the barrel as close to level as possible, it tracked really well. So, personally, I think that if your rifle isn't set right in the first place, your going to be behind the eight ball to start with. And it won't matter what bi pod you are using.

And then there's the wind and mirage.

I've heard this 'setting the rifle level' point before and figure I must be missing something. If the target is above the mound the rifle must point up. If the target is a long way off, the rifle must point up. If the target is above the mound AND a long way off, the rifle must point up a lot.

How does one set the rifle level in this situations?

[scott/r]

Tim, your right saying that you will always have the muzzle pointing up, but try and minimize this. I found that making sure the rifle was as close to level as possible when I zeroed the scope at 300 made it a lot easier for me at the longer ranges. At some mounds I use a block under the rear bag to keep things level and at others there's no need, depending on the angle of the mound.

[DenisA]

Scott, your right. I've also found using a front rest, rear bag and free recoil that the more the barrel angle, the more the muzzle flips and the fore end torques when the rifle hits its fulcrum point, my shoulder.

Tim's spot on also. You have zero control over barrel angle. It's the height of the mound V's the height of the target. You pack up the back and the muzzle drops and needs to be packed up very close to the same amount.

For rested shooters the effect on vertical POI (due to muzzle flip) can be overcome by longer free recoil travel ensuring the bullets left the barrel before interference at the fulcrum.

I don't shoot FTR and don't know the ins and outs of technique. I have heard some good FTR shooters saying that they free recoil but I don't know to what degree its possible off a bipod.

[GrahamW]

Tim, your right saying that you will always have the muzzle pointing up, but try and minimize this. I found that making sure the rifle was as close to level as possible when I zeroed the scope at 300 made it a lot easier for me at the longer ranges. At some mounds I use a block under the rear bag to keep things level and at others there's no need, depending on the angle of the mound.

I think I must be missing something here too....

I would have thought that regardless of your scopes zero or whether you're shooting tr, ftr, fs, fo or any other discipline, the "level" of your rifle can only be at the angle it must be to hit where you're aiming. This is governed by your load/barrel combination and not how you have your rifle mounted.

Sure, some mounds have different angles but you still need the correct "level" or angle to hit where you want to.

So I really don't get the "as close to level as possible" or how you minimise the muzzle pointing up??

8-)

[scott/r]

Guys, it's very possible that I'm over thinking this whole process, but it's seemed to have worked with 2 rifles so far. I don't even bore sight the scope until I get the rifle on the mound and as level as possible with the target visible through the barrel.