MUZZLE ENERGY and the Vic Queens

[Range Rector]

Does anyone have any knowledge of the M E Testing procedure and equipment to be used at the upcoming Vic Queens?
And who will be performing these tests? It isn't far off now and I reckon some of us need to know.

Thanks

[bartman007]

Richie,

I'll be taking the simple option of testing my speeds prior to the event. That way, if I need to take a tiny bit (0.1 to 0.3gn) of powder out to maintain my 2950 fps for 180gn projies I will.

As for the 6.5x47L, I don't think I'll be anywhere near the limit!

Of course taking into account the temperature of the day, you may wish to take twice as much ammo, with half of it being loaded say 0.3 gns below giving you some leeway.

I hope common sense will come in to play, and if we are seen to be trying to comply then we shouldn't be penalised. However, for those that wish to run 100 fps above their respective limit, I say do so at your peril.

PS: Rosedale have a testing day on 11th April

Cheers,

And see you there

[TOM]

Testing trigger and rifle weight is a problem, not to mention ammunition so how would they manage this!!!!

[macguru]

I am glad i live in NSW. The present limit for 180gr is 3234ft/sec (4182ft/lbs)

[DenisA]

I'll be taking the simple option of testing my speeds prior to the event. That way, if I need to take a tiny bit (0.1 to 0.3gn) of powder out to maintain my 2950 fps for 180gn projies I will.

In my opinion this is far easier said than done.

The trouble I see with this idea is that if you have some shots go over the limit and need a noticeable decrease in MV that ensures no shots will go over the limit then 0.1gn or 0.2gn barely changes anything speed wise though it will change harmonics.
If your accurate load is on the ME limit though some shots creep over slightly, then a conservative .3gn (if that's all it took) reduction in powder charge to reduce the MV of the faster shots will likely in many cases throw a tune out the door. Unless you have the luxury of running a barrel weight and have 1.0gn node that your not at the bottom end of. From what I've seen, most un-weighted barrels have accuracy nodes in the vicinity of .4gn's that we like to sit in the middle of for atmospheric/condition changes. Therefor anything over a 0.2gn change in powder charge and there's no point in competing. It can be either the next node down which would then be waaay to slow or nothing.

I'm faced with this very problem with a rifle that I want to shoot at the QLD and National Queens.

All debate aside. In my opinion, there should be a 1% leniency for the chance of the odd fast shot that can come from 3 days of shooting, barrel fouling and various condition changes.

Also the process of scrutineering for all events should be well advertised long before the event so that competitors can know what they're subject to before forking out all the coin involved in attending.

[AlanF]

...In my opinion, there should be a 1% leniency for the chance of the odd fast shot...

I can tell you that as much as 3% leniency has been discussed. These limits have caught the VRA by surprise, and they will have to do the best they can with the available knowledge and equipment. If you make an honest attempt to comply, I would be extremely surprised if you would be penalised, particularly this year, but even in future years.

[DenisA]

I can tell you that as much as 3% leniency has been discussed. These limits have caught the VRA by surprise, and they will have to do the best they can with the available knowledge and equipment. If you make an honest attempt to comply, I would be extremely surprised if you would be penalised, particularly this year, but even in future years.

3%!..... almost 90fps.... that sounds very reasonable. Hope common sense does prevail.

Has anything been discussed within the VRA concerning the means of testing such as the labradar?

[RDavies]

The trouble I see with this idea is that if you have some shots go over the limit and need a noticeable decrease in MV that ensures no shots will go over the limit then 0.1gn or 0.2gn barely changes anything speed wise though it will change harmonics.
If your accurate load is on the ME limit though some shots creep over slightly, then a conservative .3gn (if that's all it took) reduction in powder charge to reduce the MV of the faster shots will likely in many cases throw a tune out the door. Unless you have the luxury of running a barrel weight and have 1.0gn node that your not at the bottom end of. From what I've seen, most un-weighted barrels have accuracy nodes in the vicinity of .4gn's that we like to sit in the middle of for atmospheric/condition changes. Therefor anything over a 0.2gn change in powder charge and there's no point in competing. It can be either the next node down which would then be waaay to slow or nothing.

I was faced with this problem as well. My current short mag was in tune at 2950fps and if I fired a shot on a cold fouled barrel, on a warm day, some velocities could get to just over the 2960fps limit. The barrel has a very narrow node and accuracy suffered when I dropped the node down to the 2930 area. To get around this I have just had a barrel tuner fitted to it so I can run it at a slightly lower speed and keep it in tune. I know there is a leniency, but I know tongues will be wagging if someone gets clocked at 2961 fps if they are doing well at the time.

[DenisA]

Hey, thanks Rod.

How heavy is the weight on our tuner?

Did you end up having to wind the tuner towards the muzzle or the action?

Did you have to move it far from its centralised point?

How is it fastened or adhered to the barrel?

Cheers.

[RDavies]

Hey, thanks Rod.

How heavy is the weight on our tuner?

Did you end up having to wind the tuner towards the muzzle or the action?

Did you have to move it far from its centralised point?

How is it fastened or adhered to the barrel?

Cheers.

Dennis. I only picked the barrel up last week after it was threaded for a tuner. I have fitted a Shadetree tuner but wont be able to try it for another month or two. I will likely start with weights forwards towards the muzzle and move them back from there. You don't have to move the tuner very far to bring it into or out of tune. One turn, or .030" will move it all the way in or out of tune on my other barrels.

[macguru]

Was relieved to chrono my load in the new saum and find its 2940 fps with a small ES... (180vlds). no messing about needed for that barrel at least ....

[bartman007]

I did my testing on the weekend and it went like this:

ERROR (turned the chrony around the other way)
2968 fps
2962 fps

So I'll be loading the new rounds with 0.2gn's less powder to come under the limit. These rounds that I tested were from early 2014, so the neck tension may have been what took it higher than previous values. Something to look out for in future.

But as I said, for me a simple test to ensure that my loads are within the limit.

It is a bit like driving down the highway, you can drive at 103 Km/hr in a 100 zone and get off. Or you can drive at 110 Km/hr and be penalised. It all comes back to the person and what they are willing to risk......reputation is everything!

[Matt P]

I did my testing on the weekend and it went like this:

ERROR (turned the chrony around the other way)
2968 fps
2962 fps

So I'll be loading the new rounds with 0.2gn's less powder to come under the limit. These rounds that I tested were from early 2014, so the neck tension may have been what took it higher than previous values. Something to look out for in future.

But as I said, for me a simple test to ensure that my loads are within the limit.

It is a bit like driving down the highway, you can drive at 103 Km/hr in a 100 zone and get off. Or you can drive at 110 Km/hr and be penalised. It all comes back to the person and what they are willing to risk......reputation is everything!

Problem is which speedo is right !!!

[saum2]

Mike,
What brand of chrony?
Geoff

[bartman007]

Geoff, it is a Chrony Beta Master. A few years old now, but still looks like new

There will always be a question as to whose equipment is more accurate, however like car speed there is a 3% leeway for drivers, maybe there will be a similar leeway for shooters.

So for a limit of 2960 fps for 180gn projectiles, 3% variation equates to 88.8fps. This would easilly catch variations in my loads, as I normally get to 10fps spread during load development. A few years ago when I did this load development, I found a node at 2950 fps which I elected to run with. Odd that with almost 2000 rounds down the barrel, that the speed has increased slightly

There are so many items to be addressed when creating a procedure for testing compliance, however it should come back to if you are seen to be making an attempt to comply and you are very close to the mark, then you could be cautioned.