Does anyone know if JLK 80gr .224 projectiles are available in Oz yet ?
(Hopefully at a reasonable price)
Andrew
JLK projectiles
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Malcolm Hill
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Andrew
None of the state associations have any supply, any idea of when or how they will receive them or any idea of the cost of the 80gn JLK. My bet is they will probably be near double the cost of the Amax when they are available which means a dramatic increase in shooting costs to stay competitive with a 223. I guess those lucky enough to actually have some at the moment should do some winning but I can assure you that even though the projectile is now legal they wont be "as acquired through the NRAA for State and Territory Association distribution only" because no State or Territory Association I have contacted has seen any. The question needs to be asked as to how they became legal and why given that there is a survey out from the NRAA to get opinions from members as to their thoughts on introducing Berger projectiles.
Regards Malcolm.
None of the state associations have any supply, any idea of when or how they will receive them or any idea of the cost of the 80gn JLK. My bet is they will probably be near double the cost of the Amax when they are available which means a dramatic increase in shooting costs to stay competitive with a 223. I guess those lucky enough to actually have some at the moment should do some winning but I can assure you that even though the projectile is now legal they wont be "as acquired through the NRAA for State and Territory Association distribution only" because no State or Territory Association I have contacted has seen any. The question needs to be asked as to how they became legal and why given that there is a survey out from the NRAA to get opinions from members as to their thoughts on introducing Berger projectiles.
Regards Malcolm.
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Malcolm Hill
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I have just ordered 100 Berger 80gr VLD projectiles for testing, as sierras are out of stock. As I mainly use the rifle for informal 300m wednesday shoots (F anything) the regulations do not apply. I have been happy with the sierras, but if the results are good then I will let everyone know.... At $42 a 100, plus postage, these were a realistic purchase. Some of the berger .308 projectiles are twice the price of HBCs so if they get approval a renegotiation on the price would be necessary 
Andrew
Andrew
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bruce moulds
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looks like bob dyer is again a protected species.
how does this happen without tenders and discussion with members?
there is probably nothing in what has happened, but public perception is very important to consider.
malcolm,
if you get onto a good lot of amax, it would pay to stock up on them.
a good shooter and windreader can win with them against jlk.
further on the subject of jlk, my understanding is that berger has an equivalent bullet that looks identical. this is because it is the same design from the same designer.
if so, no ammo checker could tell the difference.
keep safe,
bruce.
how does this happen without tenders and discussion with members?
there is probably nothing in what has happened, but public perception is very important to consider.
malcolm,
if you get onto a good lot of amax, it would pay to stock up on them.
a good shooter and windreader can win with them against jlk.
further on the subject of jlk, my understanding is that berger has an equivalent bullet that looks identical. this is because it is the same design from the same designer.
if so, no ammo checker could tell the difference.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
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Malcolm Hill
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Malcolm Hill wrote:Keith H
It's good to know that at least one other shooter cares where this sport is heading and tried to do the right thing.
Regards Malcolm.
I would say the majority care most of the time I have never met a more passionate bunch,
BTW I had a look at the relevant website for copperhead and supply times might be an issue for him. Just a thought..... My bergers are coming today....
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ned kelly
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G'day all,
I seem to have read somewhere recently that the BC for the JLK is higher than anything Berger offered, I can't comment on the 80gn Copperheads, although I intend to use them in my 22BR, but the Copperheads would be a worthy contender especially as they are made here in Australia and should be easier to source in 500-1000 round count.
If the JLK bullet has the highest approved BC, why then is there not a blanket approval for any bullet of 80gn weight and any BC up to and equal with the JLK's BC based on published data ie manufacturere/B Litz book or actual testing?
It would make sense, offer more bullet choice on cost and type and may lift some shooters scores for a more level playing field with imroved accuracy.
FWIW, I know ALL about trying to get good bullets from my experience in SR BR.........it can be very frustrating and if the barrel doesn't like what's available, your only real choice is a new barrel and who can afford that due to lack of bullets? I know I cant.
Cheerio Ned
I seem to have read somewhere recently that the BC for the JLK is higher than anything Berger offered, I can't comment on the 80gn Copperheads, although I intend to use them in my 22BR, but the Copperheads would be a worthy contender especially as they are made here in Australia and should be easier to source in 500-1000 round count.
If the JLK bullet has the highest approved BC, why then is there not a blanket approval for any bullet of 80gn weight and any BC up to and equal with the JLK's BC based on published data ie manufacturere/B Litz book or actual testing?
It would make sense, offer more bullet choice on cost and type and may lift some shooters scores for a more level playing field with imroved accuracy.
FWIW, I know ALL about trying to get good bullets from my experience in SR BR.........it can be very frustrating and if the barrel doesn't like what's available, your only real choice is a new barrel and who can afford that due to lack of bullets? I know I cant.
Cheerio Ned
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Barry Davies
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Hi Geoff,
Your words are true re some barrel's likes and dislikes. Unfortunately for FS the people who make the choices are TR shooters who do not understand the requirements of FS, this due to the FS target being 1/2 the size of a TR target.
Most TR shooters are happy to group within the 5 ring with a token count of V's ( 6 ) A token count of V's ( 6 ) for FS is not even 1/2 good.
The major problem that exists is that which comes about by " specifying " what projectile (s ) are allowable, -- and that problem is to ensure the rules are adhered to and unspecified projectiles are not used.
Now, there are some on this forum who are naive enough to think that everybody is honest, well they need to open their eyes.
So, how to overcome this problem without resorting to issued ammo?
It does not matter what is done somebody is going to be unhappy -- how do you overcome that and keep this discipline viable?
Ammo checks? In this day and age the projectile manufacturers know what the correct shape and dimensions are - the standards are set. So, invariably all makes of projectile with the same ogive type are going to look much the same -- particularly to the untrained eye. They have to be measured to determine if it's a legal one or not.
Ammo checks need to be done in such a manner that such checking is infallible -- one mistake, one uncertainty and the credibility of those checks is shot.
Open it up to any projectile -- of a specified maximum weight for that calibre.
Again ammo checks need to be carried out to make sure nobody breaks the rules.
Costs -- what effect ?
Open it up to any weight projectile of a specified calibre -- ( eg like F/TR )
No ammo checks necessary ( except to determine correct calibre )
Costs --what effect?
Overall viability of FS as now there would only be minor differences between FS and F/TR.
There may be other measures but I will leave that to the clear thinking ones on this forum.
I believe the issue needs to be discussed at length.
Barry
Your words are true re some barrel's likes and dislikes. Unfortunately for FS the people who make the choices are TR shooters who do not understand the requirements of FS, this due to the FS target being 1/2 the size of a TR target.
Most TR shooters are happy to group within the 5 ring with a token count of V's ( 6 ) A token count of V's ( 6 ) for FS is not even 1/2 good.
The major problem that exists is that which comes about by " specifying " what projectile (s ) are allowable, -- and that problem is to ensure the rules are adhered to and unspecified projectiles are not used.
Now, there are some on this forum who are naive enough to think that everybody is honest, well they need to open their eyes.
So, how to overcome this problem without resorting to issued ammo?
It does not matter what is done somebody is going to be unhappy -- how do you overcome that and keep this discipline viable?
Ammo checks? In this day and age the projectile manufacturers know what the correct shape and dimensions are - the standards are set. So, invariably all makes of projectile with the same ogive type are going to look much the same -- particularly to the untrained eye. They have to be measured to determine if it's a legal one or not.
Ammo checks need to be done in such a manner that such checking is infallible -- one mistake, one uncertainty and the credibility of those checks is shot.
Open it up to any projectile -- of a specified maximum weight for that calibre.
Again ammo checks need to be carried out to make sure nobody breaks the rules.
Costs -- what effect ?
Open it up to any weight projectile of a specified calibre -- ( eg like F/TR )
No ammo checks necessary ( except to determine correct calibre )
Costs --what effect?
Overall viability of FS as now there would only be minor differences between FS and F/TR.
There may be other measures but I will leave that to the clear thinking ones on this forum.
I believe the issue needs to be discussed at length.
Barry
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ned kelly
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G'Day Barry,
fair call, in theory, any bullet up to 80gn and a BC less than the 80gn JLK "should" work but as you say the difficulty of identifying a bullet in this day and age is so much more complex....and likely to be exploited by a minority.
Nevertheless, me thinks any commonly available bullet in good quantities that is comparable to the SMK, Nosler, Amax for BC etc should be given preference over an exotic bullet of doubtful supply in the Australian market.
Has anyone been able to source these bullets yet and how much are they?
I fear that unless the 80gn JLK is readily available at a reasonable price the whole excercise of getting it approved by the NRAA may have been a pointless excercise.............especially if the 80gn Bergers and Copperheads are on a par.
just my 5 cents (inflation!)
Cheerio Ned
fair call, in theory, any bullet up to 80gn and a BC less than the 80gn JLK "should" work but as you say the difficulty of identifying a bullet in this day and age is so much more complex....and likely to be exploited by a minority.
Nevertheless, me thinks any commonly available bullet in good quantities that is comparable to the SMK, Nosler, Amax for BC etc should be given preference over an exotic bullet of doubtful supply in the Australian market.
Has anyone been able to source these bullets yet and how much are they?
I fear that unless the 80gn JLK is readily available at a reasonable price the whole excercise of getting it approved by the NRAA may have been a pointless excercise.............especially if the 80gn Bergers and Copperheads are on a par.
just my 5 cents (inflation!)
Cheerio Ned
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