F/TR In Australia

LarryB · Post by **LarryB** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:56 am

Linda,
Back in 2000 I decided the USA should enter a team in the first FCWC in 2002. I contacted all the FC shooters I knew plus I hounded the best LR HP and BR shooters I had knowledge of. We formed a team. Our NRA had nothing to do with it. When I was told the team had to be recognized by our NGB one of our team members had to over the head of the man in charge of HP shooting to get us recognized. They said we could go as a "goodwill" team. We never used that term. We were a national team and won.

You guys and gals can do it on your own. Someone just has to take charge and drag people out of the woodwork and get things started. I have fond memories of the Oz team and how well they shot. I would love to see the down under crew shoot internationally again. I know you can put on a good show.
I know it is a long way, but the south Africans will be here in 2013 and they have a long way to travel also and I know they intend to win. Australia should be one of those trying to stop them.

There are no matches, even national championships which even begin to compare to the atmosphere of a true international team match. That is why I am spending the money and leaving Texas in 38 hours for Ireland and the Creedmoor and EU/USA matches. International matches should be an item on every shooters "Bucket List".

I hope I haven't offended anyone with this message, but I know it can be done and that you and your countrymen can do it. See you in 2013.

Larry Bartholome

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:35 am

warren,
thank you for the verification.
i have read about the problem of people who can collectively be referred to as 'mildots', and your awareness of the need to deal with the image they portray to the voting public.
i have also read on other sites the response of the "mildots" to not being allowed to attatch their image to fclass.
most of these people seem to be wannabe soldiers, policemen, or security, but don't have the balls to commit fully to that desire.
one of the ways to isolate them is to maintain a dress code which disallows military look clothing when on an fclass range. the other is to denote the sport as target, not tactical, shooting.
there are plenty of people coming back into shooting now who do not fit this sniper image.
bruce moulds.

TOM · Post by **TOM** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:43 am

Thanks for the info Darrell.Can you give detail about rifle weight and what factors influenced the decision for 8.25 kg and the use of bipod only?

Anyone?

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:18 am

Many thanks for your reply Larry.

I have emails going left, right and centre in an attempt to form the best group of people that will see F/TR introduced and supported in AU.

You can be sure, if I have anything to do with it. We WILL have an Australian F Open and F/TR team at the FCWC.

It would be nice to have the support of the NRAA, but you are correct. We can do it on our own, and we will.

I wish the American team all the best as you take on Ireland.

Matt P · Post by **Matt P** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:49 am

Linda
As I posted elsewhere, teams are made up of the "the best who can afford it" not the BEST. There is a data base of FS scores that you could use to try and select a team, some of those may shoot off rests but could conform to FT/R if they wanted, some will and some wont. If I was to nominate for the FCWC I would probably nominate for open rather than FT/R as I don't like bi-pods and the unlimited projectile using a 308 case doesn't appeal to me, I would prefer unlimited projectile and case so it would be FO for me.
Goodluck I hope we can get a team to the FCWC for the first time since 2002, for anyone thinking about it I was at the 1st FCWC in Canada and had a ball.

Matt P

John E · Post by **John E** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:11 am

AlanF wrote:John,

The weight limit of 8.25Kg for F/TR includes the bipod. Australian F-Std rifles can weigh up to 10Kg with bipod. Some don't push this limit and could convert readily to F/TR, but the number of heavier setups is increasing all the time.

This is why I suggested that if F-Std raised their allowed rifle (only) weight to 10Kg, they could screw in a barrel chambered in 7mm or whatever and shoot F-Open at the FCWC.

Alan

FSTD can shoot FO at the FCWC with their 8 kg rifles, can they not? They are already showing that they are competitive with FO 10kg rifles, I believe.
John

LarryB · Post by **LarryB** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:19 pm

Tom,
I'll try to answer your question about what factors influenced the decision for 8.25 kg and the use of bipod only, at least as far as the USA. Back in the early 2000's a large discussion went on here for quite some time regarding rifles for FC other than F-Open. Various weights, with and without bipod and rest were discussed. EVERYONE had a different opinion. Before the first FC national championships was held in 2004 a group of shooters got together and we looked at the weights of various types of target rifles (Palma included), scopes and bipods in use. A judgment was made and the weight of 8.25 kg was decided on.

In addition to weight and bipods/rests, calibers other than .308 and.223 also were discussed. Many felt there should be a place for hunting or light target rounds to be used. My own feelings at the time was I had a world record holding 6BR BR/F-Open that only weighed 16 lb 4 oz. If other calibers were allowed I could put a bipod on it and have an F-TR/whatever it was called rifle. Not exactly the way things should go. In the end the decision was made to have F/TR (target rifle), a term that covers not just your TR Fullbore rifles, but other rifles used for target shooting. It was felt that by limiting the class to bipod only and .308/.223 it would separate the class more from the F-Open class and perhaps be less intimidating to new shooters. There is nothing in the rules to prevent me or anyone else from shooting a rifle like I had in F-Open.

It appears both from the USA stand point and the European that it was the correct thing to do since the class is growing quite well.

It just came into mind and let me point out here that to build a top level F/TR rifle you will spend just as much as a top level F-Open. Operating cost in regards to components and barrel replacement may be higher, but initial cost would be the about the same. A club gun can cost a lot less than a top notch one be it for F/TR or F/O. Even factory riles such as the Savage F/TR and F-O can work quite well. Darrell and I both harassed Savage for years to come out with those rifles.

Larry Bartholome

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:16 pm

john,
you seem to be looking for reasons not to do this.
bruce moulds.

John E · Post by **John E** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:03 pm

Did I see wind blowing from left, before he fired, and after he blew smoke from the chamber, and he put on right wind to start with?
John

John E · Post by **John E** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:08 pm

Bruce, I am totally in favour of F/TR starting up. As far as teams going overseas, it will still come down to who can afford the time off work to do it, and who can afford it.
John

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:59 pm

john,
so why do you keep drawing fo into a discussion about just about any other subject?
bruce moulds.

John E · Post by **John E** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:18 pm

You're paranoid, Bruce

JannieSA · Post by **JannieSA** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:46 pm

LarryB wrote:I know it is a long way, but the south Africans will be here in 2013 and they have a long way to travel also and I know they intend to win. Australia should be one of those trying to stop them.

There are no matches, even national championships which even begin to compare to the atmosphere of a true international team match. That is why I am spending the money and leaving Texas in 38 hours for Ireland and the Creedmoor and EU/USA matches. International matches should be an item on every shooters "Bucket List".

I agree with Larry's posting above.
Ha......I am not so sure about the last sentence in the first para. But it is the truth - one should be on the mood to win if you do compete.

I echo the last para as well - any of this should be on the "bucket list".

It is also the truth that the best not always be available to shoot BUT this is months ahead and I trust one can organize if it is priority. South Africa always go with the best shooters. If we do well then we are happy and when we loose we have to come back to make it better the next time.

We surely will be there in 2013 with a F-Open & F/TR team to give anyone good run for the money.

Good Luck on your arrangements to compete as well.

actionclear · Post by **actionclear** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:43 am

How many TR shooters have Bisley on their "bucket list"? Not because they attend as an AU team member, but because they have the desire to compete in a historical location, in an event that has been around many many years. Some of our grandfathers got on a ship so they could go and compete at Bisley. It was the place to be seen if you were a target rifle shooter.

F Class is new to the sport, but the FCWC is the Bisley equal. You don't have to attend as a team member, you can shoot as an individual. Being in that atmosphere with a group of like minded people, will be worth it. You will probably love it so much, you will come back and start planning your next trip. If not, you can cross it off your bucket list.

:lol:

There are other events, South Africa for instance which will offer similar competition, at a cheaper price. Again, you can compete in the South Africa as an individual.

Remember our dollar is strong at the moment. :wink:

Warren Dean · Post by **Warren Dean** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:49 am

John E wrote:Bruce, I am totally in favour of F/TR starting up. As far as teams going overseas, it will still come down to who can afford the time off work to do it, and who can afford it.
John

John,

The same limitations you cite affect us here in the US and worldwide. Money and time off are factors in the makeup of our international teams. It isn't unique to Oz by any stretch. We ALL make sacrifices to represent our country on the world stage and do it gladly.

It comes down to dedication and sacrifice to pursue the dream.

F/TR In Australia

Forming a TEam

Re: Forming a TEam