Spuhr mount - Chinese copies

[PeteFox]

I have used Spuhr mounts since I first started F Class, they are excellent if heavy mounts.
The price has always been painful @ $495 for the one I purchased yesterday. While doing my web search, a link popped up on AliBaba with an identical looking mount for 20% of the BRT price.
Spuhr are aware of this and they say it's made of lower quality alloy and not made to tolerances - but they would say that wouldn't they. It's a bit of a generalisation without specifics, so I'll take that with a grain of salt.

The link is here >> AliBaba

I didn't buy one, I bought the real item, but looking at the photos on Alibaba you cannot tell the difference, it's all there down to the patent numbers.

So I guess this is a bit of a heads up for anyone buying a bargain on eBay or used guns, especially if it's without the box.

Counterfeit item

counterfeit.jpg

Anyone bought one?
Pete

[PMcC]

I noticed that they only offer the SP 3002 model

Only thing missing in the pics is the Sphur logo on side of mount, even the fonts look the same

[PeteFox]

Another site with different colours and height options >> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005972050122.html

Mount with 34mm tube option >> 34mm

Look hard enough and you can find a NF ATACR 7-35 for $450
Pete

[PeteFox]

Well it finally got the better of me. I wanted to see what the quality was like so I ordered some counterfeit "Spuhr" mounts from China.

I would like to support the OEM's of the products I buy, but Spuhr haven't done themselves any favours.
Yes their product is superb. Flawless. In the factory, the machines are loaded up with barstock, the lights are turned off and everyone goes home for the night and comes back in the morning to a bin full of shiny new scope mounts. This is probably an oversimplification.
There's no labour intensive skilled operators at work here, it's about buying good machinery, having capable operators and programmers and using good materials. Ordinarily this type of production results in savings to the buyers, especially when mass produced in the numbers Shuhr makes. Not so with Spuhr. I have been buying Spuhr mounts for years, Model 3002 - 30mm ring, 1.5" high, 0 moa cant. At $525 on the Spuhr Aust website. they are barely cheaper than the newer low volume mounts, so the economies of scale and amortisation of development costs don't exist . IMO, Spuhr are taking the piss and my money.

So the Chinese make a copy of the model SP3002. It's available on Alibaba for about Aud $72 delivered and it's got to be crap right.

There are YouTube videos out there that disparage them as useless junk. One luminary found that the colour of the mount and screws were not an exact match, the spirit level was green, not clear, the metal was inferior (he could tell by the feel, despite the fact that he was feeling the paint), and the font in the engraving was slightly different. Convincing stuff that must lead to disaster. Nobody has actually bothered to do any meaningful research that I could find.

I have had two versions of the mount for a few weeks. SP 3002 and SP3004 (the 2" high version) Also $525 v's $89 delivered for the Chinese version.
Both mounts come in a plain box, with a levelling wedge and a full set of replacement screws. There are no visible tool marks of any kind, the paint is flawless. The are some minor machining differences, e.g. bolt holes recessed differently, different chamfers, less distinct font engraving, no instructions, but almost identical. You won't know without a genuine one beside to compare against.

spuhr1.jpg

spuhr3.jpg

spuhr2.jpg

In the photos above, the genuine mount is on left

I purchased these from SKW Optics. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1100570257.
I don't know whether they are better or worse than any other Chinese company or even if they actually make the mount, but they do exhibit at defence trade shows which gives me some reassurance that their products are not total junk. Conversations with the store owner have been good and he continually contacted me with delivery updates.
Freight is a bit tricky. The mount is a firearm part in China so they cannot be exported. but they can, there are just a few tricky work arounds. I used PayPal because of the money back guarantee. Delivery was a couple of weeks.

I have not fitted them yet as I wanted to be sure the rings were aligned and they were not going to stress my scope. So my latest toy is a Scope Ring Alignment Verification Tool from Armaments by Design https://armamentsbydesign.com.au/store/ ... ol-type-a/

Using this tool I can confirm the genuine Spuhr is aligned perfectly, as are the Chinese copies. Shown below is the SP3004 Chinese copy and the collar slides easily between the two bars.

Untitled 5.jpg

spuhr4.jpg

This is not a recommendation, it is just what I have found.
Pete

[dazza284]

Well it finally got the better of me. I wanted to see what the quality was like so I ordered some counterfeit "Spuhr" mounts from China.

I would like to support the OEM's of the products I buy, but Spuhr haven't done themselves any favours.
Yes their product is superb. Flawless. In the factory, the machines are loaded up with barstock, the lights are turned off and everyone goes home for the night and comes back in the morning to a bin full of shiny new scope mounts. This is probably an oversimplification.
There's no labour intensive skilled operators at work here, it's about buying good machinery, having capable operators and programmers and using good materials. Ordinarily this type of production results in savings to the buyers, especially when mass produced in the numbers Shuhr makes. Not so with Spuhr. I have been buying Spuhr mounts for years, Model 3002 - 30mm ring, 1.5" high, 0 moa cant. At $525 on the Spuhr Aust website. they are barely cheaper than the newer low volume mounts, so the economies of scale and amortisation of development costs don't exist . IMO, Spuhr are taking the piss and my money.

So the Chinese make a copy of the model SP3002. It's available on Alibaba for about Aud $72 delivered and it's got to be crap right.

There are YouTube videos out there that disparage them as useless junk. One luminary found that the colour of the mount and screws were not an exact match, the spirit level was green, not clear, the metal was inferior (he could tell by the feel, despite the fact that he was feeling the paint), and the font in the engraving was slightly different. Convincing stuff that must lead to disaster. Nobody has actually bothered to do any meaningful research that I could find.

I have had two versions of the mount for a few weeks. SP 3002 and SP3004 (the 2" high version) Also $525 v's $89 delivered for the Chinese version.
Both mounts come in a plain box, with a levelling wedge and a full set of replacement screws. There are no visible tool marks of any kind, the paint is flawless. The are some minor machining differences, e.g. bolt holes recessed differently, different chamfers, less distinct font engraving, no instructions, but almost identical. You won't know without a genuine one beside to compare against.

spuhr1.jpg

spuhr3.jpg

spuhr2.jpg

In the photos above, the genuine mount is on left

I purchased these from SKW Optics. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1100570257.
I don't know whether they are better or worse than any other Chinese company or even if they actually make the mount, but they do exhibit at defence trade shows which gives me some reassurance that their products are not total junk. Conversations with the store owner have been good and he continually contacted me with delivery updates.
Freight is a bit tricky. The mount is a firearm part in China so they cannot be exported. but they can, there are just a few tricky work arounds. I used PayPal because of the money back guarantee. Delivery was a couple of weeks.

I have not fitted them yet as I wanted to be sure the rings were aligned and they were not going to stress my scope. So my latest toy is a Scope Ring Alignment Verification Tool from Armaments by Design https://armamentsbydesign.com.au/store/ ... ol-type-a/

Using this tool I can confirm the genuine Spuhr is aligned perfectly, as are the Chinese copies. Shown below is the SP3004 Chinese copy and the collar slides easily between the two bars.

Untitled 5.jpg

spuhr4.jpg

This is not a recommendation, it is just what I have found.
Pete

Thanks for all the efforts.
I have found the same in other areas.

[PeteFox]

Ok, I have fitted one of these to a rifle. The high one - SP3004.
I was doubtful about the screws as there is an additional full set of screws (16) supplied with each mount. There's got to be a reason.
They are certainly strong enough as I tested one, and the torx bit twisted on itself when I tried to break one, but the screws are pretty average, as the bit cams out too easily and you have to put a lot of pressure on it to keep it engaged with the screw head. Screws have a T20 head. I normally tighten the pic rail clamp screws to 45 in lb, so I put 120 in lb on the threads in the mount body, without stripping them, so I guess that's OK.
I can buy 100 quality screws for $20 , so I'll be doing that and replacing them. Thinking of going to hex (allen) screws as i can get them in black, torx heads are shiny stainless only..

The levelling wedge supplied with the high mount is useless, as it won't reach the scope base so it's back to the old way of levelling. This is just plain dumb.

The base clamps the pic rail taper properly and the engagement lug fits snugly.
Pete

[subitj]

i bought one through Ali express company suppling them is called Dawnforce, cost approx $110.00 delivered no problems getting them out of the country because they deliver themselves.

[PeteFox]

I can buy 100 quality screws for $20 , so I'll be doing that and replacing them. Thinking of going to hex (allen) screws as i can get them in black, torx heads are shiny stainless only..

Just posting this so anyone else considering upgrading the screws on the Chinese mounts has the right info.
The screws clamping the rings together are an M4 x 10mm T20 with a tapered head.
However what you get from your bolt specialist won't fit. I have 100 of these that proves it. The head on a standard screw is larger than the Spuhr one and won't fit in the recess. So there's $20 wasted there.
In then end, the only screws I could find were genuine Spuhr ones (apart from the dodgy Chinese ones). I ordered 45, cost $60 delivered WTF.
A heads up.

[PeteFox]

Another update on the Chinese (Spuhr) mounts

With no shooting going on,
I setup a bench in my shed for my front rest, bag and rifle, and a plumb line 10m away.
I'ver been going over my rifles and checking the front rest and its relationship to the pic rail and cross hairs for level, i.e when the bubble on the front rest says level, the pic rail is level and the cross hairs are also plumb.
With a Spuhr mount there is a 10deg wedge supplied that aligns the flat on the bottom of the scope to a 10deg slot milled into the top of the mount base. If all is good, the scope and mount don't need to be on the action for levelling as the wedge system works very well. It's left in place while torqueing down the rings and if you're careful, things don't move. The pic rail will need to be accurately made for this to be worthwhile.

I had a scope setup on a genuine Spuhr mount that was plumb in all respects when checked on a rifle on my bench setup.
I setup another scope in a Chinese mount off rifle using the wedge. I then swapped these over.
When fitted to the same rifle, it aligned exactly with the plumb line. not just very close - exact.

This is another confidence booster that the CNC mill/lathe that these mounts are made on has precision and the programmer who copied the design was doing the job properly.
So no recommendations here, I think that some of these counterfeit mounts will be total junk, but I have three of these now and apart from the screw heads mentioned in a previous post, I can't find fault. I'll just check every one.
I'm changing three of the genuine mounts over to Chinese because I want some extra height and using genuine, the cost would be $560 each v's around $100 after the screws are replaced.

There are web articles and you-tube videos around, showing spirit level setup on the top on the turrets for levelling. I checked this out, and while it may be true for some scopes some of the time, I found it to be unreliable. The turret cap is a piece of threaded plastic, held on by grub screws sitting on a spindle. Use your own judgement.
Pete