Many SH Class Questions

[Tsv900]

Hey all!

I made a post asking about F Class yesterday and I got pointed in the direction of the Sporter/Hunter Class, which I hasn't heard of until then, which sounds much better suited to what I'm wanting to do. I have some questions that I'm hoping you guys can help me with.

I have a Tikka T3X Super Varmint in stock form in 6.5CM. All I have done is adjust the trigger pull weight to be lighter. My scope is an Athlon Argos BTR Gen 2 6-24x50. This scope has enough internal elevation for 1000m with high BC Roinds such as the 136g Sako TRG Precision. However, with lower BC rounds I don't have enough internal adjustment. With that, I'm assuming people tend to stick with higher BC rounds in this sport anyway? Or should I invest in a 20MOA rail to gain roughly 5 MRAD of internal adjustment?
For context, I have 11.4 MRAD of internal elevation. The Sako Ammo needs 10.6 for 1000m without holding over and the lower BC stuff I have, which is much cheaper and still accurate out to 500m (the furthest I've currently shot) needs 17.

Will my scope being in MRAD be an issue? Do most people use MOA or MRAD in this sport?

What distances so you shoot at in this sport? What is the structure of a competition and how long so they run? Are comps set at a certain distance or do they run over multiple days?

How many shots are to be put on target per round?

Are there sub classes in SH and if so, which sub class would I fall under?

I understand that this class exists mainly to encourage people such as me, who want to compete without breaking the bank. With that, are modifications allowed? If so, I have some questions to go with that.
I've been wanting to upgrade my stock to something MDT such as the XRS and I've been wanting to equip a muzzle brake and was looking into the 4AW one. Swapping to an MDT XRS would also mean swapping to a 10 round magazine. My standard magazine capacity is 5 however there are other Tikkas that come standard with 10 round capacity anyway.
Next up is my current bipod, it's a Harris and it's very rigid. I find it very difficult to preload this bipod whatsoever unless I put a heavy sandbag in front of it. I'm assuming I can't do this on competition, so with that, am I allowed to use a more preloadable bipod such as an Atlas?

Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a competitive calibre for this class? I like the idea of steadily improving my own skills anyway, but I'm wondering if I'm going to be up for a calibre swap when I eventually want to push the envelope.

Thanks,

[CamoWhamo]

Your rifle and caliber choice is perfect for the sporter class.
There aren't many ranges or competitions that go out to 1000m. The most common would be 300, 500, 600, 700 & 800m but there are some which go out to 900yds.
Having said that I would still recommend a 20MOA rail.

MOA vs MRAD is a personal choice. MOA is still the more widely used so most questions asking for corrections for wind etc will get answered in MOA. If you get involved in the team comps where you have a wind coach adjusting your dials then it's beneficial to be with MOA.
But there's no reason to change your scope from what you have. MRAD is becoming more and more prevalent.

Comps are shot with serials consisting of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots at each range. There are also some which have 2 sighters and 15 scoring shots towards the end of the match. The bigger comps like the Kings can run over 3-5 days.

The sporter class is broken down into Production and Open.
The production class is for factory rifles with their original barrel and caliber.
The rifle must be under 6.5kg. The barrel length must be under 26". Magazines are permitted where range rules allow.
The front rest is a bipod and is included in the 6.5kg weight.
The rear rest is a soft bag with a max weight of 1kg.
The maximum allowed scope magnification is 25x

The open class is for rifles that have been re-barrelled.
The weight limit goes to 7.5kg and max barrel length is 27".

6.5Creedmoor is a great choice and very competitive. Both the production and Open class winners at the NSW Kings in 2024 were shooting 6.5creed.

[PeteFox]

Hey all!
.

Will my scope being in MRAD be an issue? Do most people use MOA or MRAD in this sport?


I've been wanting to upgrade my stock to something MDT such as the XRS and I've been wanting to equip a muzzle brake and was looking into the 4AW one.

Swapping to an MDT XRS would also mean swapping to a 10 round magazine. My standard magazine capacity is 5 however there are other Tikkas that come standard with 10 round capacity anyway.
.

Thanks,

I'll try to answer three of your questions

An MRAD scoppe can be used OK, but you won't be talking the same language as FClass shooters who you may want to ask for advice. The targets are essentially MOA targets, and IMO you are better off with an MOA scope. MRAD scope have less resolution per click than typical MOA scopes.

Muzzle brakes are illegal for FClass but not S/H as long as the range rules permit. Most FClass shooters will not want to be anywhere near you when shooting with a brake. You don't need one and you don't need to be pissing people off.

This type is shooting is slow fire. Magazines present an additional safety item to check. you are better off with a magazine blanker and load singly. You will have to run 2 magazines to shoot a ten shot match if you use your sighters. A pain in the arse.

Pete

[Tsv900]

Your rifle and caliber choice is perfect for the sporter class.
There aren't many ranges or competitions that go out to 1000m. The most common would be 300, 500, 600, 700 & 800m but there are some which go out to 900yds.
Having said that I would still recommend a 20MOA rail.

MOA vs MRAD is a personal choice. MOA is still the more widely used so most questions asking for corrections for wind etc will get answered in MOA. If you get involved in the team comps where you have a wind coach adjusting your dials then it's beneficial to be with MOA.
But there's no reason to change your scope from what you have. MRAD is becoming more and more prevalent.

Comps are shot with serials consisting of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots at each range. There are also some which have 2 sighters and 15 scoring shots towards the end of the match. The bigger comps like the Kings can run over 3-5 days.

The sporter class is broken down into Production and Open.
The production class is for factory rifles with their original barrel and caliber.
The rifle must be under 6.5kg. The barrel length must be under 26". Magazines are permitted where range rules allow.
The front rest is a bipod and is included in the 6.5kg weight.
The rear rest is a soft bag with a max weight of 1kg.
The maximum allowed scope magnification is 25x

The open class is for rifles that have been re-barrelled.
The weight limit goes to 7.5kg and max barrel length is 27".

6.5Creedmoor is a great choice and very competitive. Both the production and Open class winners at the NSW Kings in 2024 were shooting 6.5creed.

Thanks for all of that info! I appreciate it.

Alright, I'm glad to know the 6.5 creed is the way to go, it makes sense with the 6.5kg weight limit.

The range I'm going to goes to 900m, I just wasn't sure if they'd shoot as far in the Sporter. So just to clarify with the comps, you may shoot 2 distances on one day and 2 distances on the next? I don't know if I can afford that much ammo so I probably need to start reloading ha.

I believe this place uses electronic targets, I'm not sure if that's relevant. Also thanks for telling me the difference between production and open. I assume open means rebarelled with a custom barrel? My rifle has a 24" heavy barrel with a 1:8 twist and has been performing fairly well at the local range so I'm very excited to see how it goes.

Thanks again

[Tsv900]

Hey all!
.

Will my scope being in MRAD be an issue? Do most people use MOA or MRAD in this sport?


I've been wanting to upgrade my stock to something MDT such as the XRS and I've been wanting to equip a muzzle brake and was looking into the 4AW one.

Swapping to an MDT XRS would also mean swapping to a 10 round magazine. My standard magazine capacity is 5 however there are other Tikkas that come standard with 10 round capacity anyway.
.

Thanks,

I'll try to answer three of your questions

An MRAD scoppe can be used OK, but you won't be talking the same language as FClass shooters who you may want to ask for advice. The targets are essentially MOA targets, and IMO you are better off with an MOA scope. MRAD scope have less resolution per click than typical MOA scopes.

Muzzle brakes are illegal for FClass but not S/H as long as the range rules permit. Most FClass shooters will not want to be anywhere near you when shooting with a brake. You don't need one and you don't need to be pissing people off.

This type is shooting is slow fire. Magazines present an additional safety item to check. you are better off with a magazine blanker and load singly. You will have to run 2 magazines to shoot a ten shot match if you use your sighters. A pain in the arse.

Pete

Ah, in response to the muzzle brake - I assumed they'd be common in the sporter class and that the sporter class would shoot separately to F Class, or does everyone shoot at the same time? My rifle has been plenty accurate without one thus far, however sometimes I have difficulty spotting shots. With that being said, I've only ever shot off a Bench and I'm going to assume prone is much more comfortable and stable.

Yeah I think I'll order a bobsled in the short term and then upgrade to a 10 round ACIS mag when I drop the action into something MDT.

Cheers!

[macguru]

My answers:
1. Its called PC/PCO now
2. Your rifle is PC ("production class")
3. A tikka in 6.5cm is great
4. You will be happier with a 20moa rail. I hear the factory rails are locktighted on so good luck with that...
5. with a 6.5 cm you would shoot 130/140gr target pills. Its a great choice.
6. the et grids are in moa. your scope is ok but learn to convert. i like moa
7. stages are 10 or 15 with 2 opt sighters
8 plenty of experienced shooters also shoot pco
9 harris are good, you may need to dig in a tiny bit to load it up correctly

[Lithgow]

Hey Mate,

Join Australian Sporter Class Precision Rifle on Facebook, most of the current competition sporter shooters are on there and will be able to assist with any questions and advice.

[Tsv900]

My answers:
1. Its called PC/PCO now
2. Your rifle is PC ("production class")
3. A tikka in 6.5cm is great
4. You will be happier with a 20moa rail. I hear the factory rails are locktighted on so good luck with that...
5. with a 6.5 cm you would shoot 130/140gr target pills. Its a great choice.
6. the et grids are in moa. your scope is ok but learn to convert. i like moa
7. stages are 10 or 15 with 2 opt sighters
8 plenty of experienced shooters also shoot pco
9 harris are good, you may need to dig in a tiny bit to load it up correctly

Thanks,

Yeah I might have to go with a 20 MOA mount that attaches to the current rail.

What exactly are stages?

Awesome, it sounds like the sort if community where people help eachother out which is nice.

Yeah, I've only ever shot my bipod on a concrete top bench so being prone it'll probably be easier to put decent pressure into it

Cheers

[Tsv900]

Hey Mate,

Join Australian Sporter Class Precision Rifle on Facebook, most of the current competition sporter shooters are on there and will be able to assist with any questions and advice.

Oh awesome thanks, I found the group and am pending the join. I didn't even consider that there might be a FB group, cheers.

[PeteFox]

I smell another AI bot

[Lithgow]

I smell another AI bot

Not this time mate, it's a genuine page for sporter nuts!

[Blindbat]

Distance - Most club matches are shot at whatever distance is scheduled for that day. Lets say today is 300m, next weeks schedule is most likely to be 400m. (or 500m if you're unlucky enough to shoot at a range that doesn't have a 400m mound like Malabar aka Anzac)
Targets - All disciplines use the same targets. If your club has enough targets they may dedicate one to each discipline but most likely everyone will be shooting on the same target/s.
Stages - Each match will consist of 2 stages with a break between. Each consisting of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots. If you are lucky enough to convert all your sighters you will need only 20 rounds for the day and if you don't convert any you will need 24 rounds. Most days you will convert some of your sighters especially in your 2nd stage as you will be dialed in by then.
Converting sighters - You have the option to convert sighters into scoring shots. If both sighters are 5s you may convert both and your next shot will be your 3rd scoring shot meaning you will only use 10 rounds for the stage. If the 1st sighter is a 2 and 2nd is a 5 you may wish to convert the 2nd shot as your 1st scoring and continue (11 rounds). If uou don't convert either the stage will be 12 rounds. You can convert either both or just the 2nd however you cannot convert the 1st without also converting the 2nd.

[Tsv900]

Distance - Most club matches are shot at whatever distance is scheduled for that day. Lets say today is 300m, next weeks schedule is most likely to be 400m. (or 500m if you're unlucky enough to shoot at a range that doesn't have a 400m mound like Malabar aka Anzac)
Targets - All disciplines use the same targets. If your club has enough targets they may dedicate one to each discipline but most likely everyone will be shooting on the same target/s.
Stages - Each match will consist of 2 stages with a break between. Each consisting of 2 sighters and 10 scoring shots. If you are lucky enough to convert all your sighters you will need only 20 rounds for the day and if you don't convert any you will need 24 rounds. Most days you will convert some of your sighters especially in your 2nd stage as you will be dialed in by then.
Converting sighters - You have the option to convert sighters into scoring shots. If both sighters are 5s you may convert both and your next shot will be your 3rd scoring shot meaning you will only use 10 rounds for the stage. If the 1st sighter is a 2 and 2nd is a 5 you may wish to convert the 2nd shot as your 1st scoring and continue (11 rounds). If uou don't convert either the stage will be 12 rounds. You can convert either both or just the 2nd however you cannot convert the 1st without also converting the 2nd.

Thank you very, very much for explaining this. I was actually at the public range yesterday using higher valocity but lower BC bullets than the roinds that I zero'd the rifle with and they were hitting slightly high at 100m. With that the accuracy is there as it still hit t shots sub MOA here. However, the group was almost a straight line upwards with each round virtually stacked onto the previous. Maybe I was a little too firm on the buttstock and the muzzle was lifting slightly.
I then went to 200m hit high and left. I held point of aim and dialed to point of impact and did a follow up 5 shot group that hit right and slightly low, but still stayed right on 2 MOA. Until now I haven't been too fussed when point of impact isn't right on as it's going to vary a little depending on the ammo I'm using.

Anyway my point is, while I'm fairly sure it'll still be just about dead on with the ammo I zero'd with, which is also the same ammo I'll use for SH Class shooting virn that is has a much higher BC, my adjustment method didn't work properly at 200m by dialing to the impact point. I then dialed point of aim to the middle of that 5 shot group and took a 6th shot that hit about 1 inch low and left of the point of aim then proceeded to take some shots at the 500m gong with my remaining rounds. So what's a better method to utilise the 2 sighting shots in a comp environment?

When shooting around the 400-500m mark where MOA is in that 4-5 inch range, I assume one would consider 4's and 5's an acceptable score to count in as scoring shots?

The accuracy is there, the point of impact is a little off. Even at only 200m, I shot a 5 shot group and dialed into the middle of it to still be one inch low and right. I'm hoping it'll be fine with the higher BC rounds but we'll see how it goes.

Thanks

[Blindbat]

It's all relative as there are so many variables. Even with the most expensive custom made target rifles, daily conditions will effect the point of impact. As long as you are on paper for your 1st sighter you are good to go. Get a zero you are confident with, work out your dope (sorry for using an American term) for each distance, dial in your elevation, guess the windage and dial that on, see where it lands on target with your 1st sighter of the day, adjust, use your 2nd sighter to confirm or make additional adjustments and you're off and running. As I said earlier your 2nd stage is where you're more likely to convert sighters as you've already dialed in for the day.

Cold barrel - it's likely that the 1st sighter from a cold (and possibly clean) barrel will go low. Some claim that using Moly or HBN coated bullets overcomes this phenomenon but that is the topic for another discussion.Some will try to minimize this phenomenon by using blow off shots into the bank or during the early pre-comp session if your club allows either practice. Some don't care, they expect the 1st sighter to go low and react accordingly.

Variable Conditions - Wind gusts, wind direction changes, humidity, light level, mirage, ammo quality, temperature, spin rate/wind drift (don't ask now, that's for the advanced class), mound equipment, rests, hold of the firearm and mindset (did I miss any) will all effect point of impact to varying degrees. Your elevations will change from day to day even if only marginally but your windage will be a guess most days.Wind quartering from the right at 10 knots may need 2.5 minutes right windage at 300m and 8.5 minutes at 800m. As mentioned earlier most members know minutes not mils. BTW, the real skill of distance shooting is reading the wind.

[Tsv900]

It's all relative as there are so many variables. Even with the most expensive custom made target rifles, daily conditions will effect the point of impact. As long as you are on paper for your 1st sighter you are good to go. Get a zero you are confident with, work out your dope (sorry for using an American term) for each distance, dial in your elevation, guess the windage and dial that on, see where it lands on target with your 1st sighter of the day, adjust, use your 2nd sighter to confirm or make additional adjustments and you're off and running. As I said earlier your 2nd stage is where you're more likely to convert sighters as you've already dialed in for the day.

Cold barrel - it's likely that the 1st sighter from a cold (and possibly clean) barrel will go low. Some claim that using Moly or HBN coated bullets overcomes this phenomenon but that is the topic for another discussion.Some will try to minimize this phenomenon by using blow off shots into the bank or during the practice session if your club does this. Some don't care, they expect the 1st sighter to go low and react accordingly.

Variable Conditions - Wind gusts, wind direction changes, humidity, light level, mirage, ammo quality, temperature, spin rate/wind drift (don't ask now, that's for the advanced class), mound equipment, rests, hold of the firearm and mindset (did I miss any) will all effect point of impact to varying degrees. Your elevations will change from day to day even if only marginally but your windage will be a guess most days.Wind quartering from the right at 10 knots may need 2.5 minutes right windage at 300m and 8.5 minutes at 800m. As mentioned earlier most members know minutes not mils. BTW, this is the real skill of distance shooting, reading the wind.

Absolutely fantastic information, thanks!

I thought I was messing up. And that's okay, I didn't know what dope stood for until recently and it's something I've already been doing by using previous impacts for reference changes. I tend to dial for elevation and hold for wind when I'm shooting the 500m gongs however I have wondered this: if I'm shooting at a given longer distance and miss on windage, will the same principle of putting the crosshairs on the gong and dialing to where the previous shot landed then re-engaging work in situations where the wind is relatively consistent?

And cool, I'll use sighters to get on paper and make adjustments from there. Do you guys usually dial for each shot or do you get on paper and make slight adjustmenrt with holdover?

As for barrel cleaning, I've been cleaning it after each range day even if I've only shot 20 rounds but not overcleaning it. All I do is spray g96 "triple action" into the bore, run a couple of patches, run the brush down once or twice and then patch around 5 more through until it's reasonable clean. However, I've been hearing that leaving some fouling in the barrel smoothens it out and can help with accuracy. So, would it possibly be better to just run a few patches after each shoot to remove the excess within the barrel but wiithout scrubbing out the rifling with a brush?

As for form, I've only shot off a bench thus far, but I set the rifle up to be level with the target, line my centre right pec up with the buttstock with my shoulders square and feet straight in front of me. I'm finding this the most consistent and comfortable and I'm very much looking forward to going to prone. If I haven't shot for a while, I'll flinch for the first few rounds. However yesterday I was feeling comfortable behind the rifle as opposed to last weekend which was my first shoot in a few months. Anyway with that, with conscious effort to put reasonable but not too much pressure on the butt stock and lean into the bipod a little and staying on the rifle/trigger after the shot, while everything grouped fairly well, my reticle was off to the left after most shots and I'm not sure as to why. However, this may be less of an issue with prone shooting.

And yes, developing wind reading skills and learning to adjust and hold accordingly in a relatively consistent way is one of the factors I'm most looking forward to.