Building a suitable rifle for SH

[macguru]

I thought I would set down what I think are the main attributes of a successful rifle for SH, assuming we will be allowed some latitude in building our own, within the rules ..... But I should add that the most important variable when shooting off a bipod is the shooter himself - if you pull a shot you probably won't get away with it.

I started out with a gun that had none of these attributes, and each time I changed something I could see the improvement in accuracy.

Barrel: A 26in varmint weight barrel is ideal. A bit shorter is OK but skinny barrels that I have owned all tended to move the point of impact as they heated up, say after 3 shots. Fine for sambar, not so good on hexta. I accept there may be skinny barrels out there that do not do this, but I have not owned one.

Bedding: You need a stock that will not flex unduly when you 'load up' the bipod. So a rigid alloy number that does not flex, but comes under the weight limit, is ideal.

Bipod: I am just using a heavy harris brand but some people spend heaps on a good bipod. If your bipod has wobbly legs you are never going to shoot well with it.

Calibre: I chose 308 because its a great all rounder but I am a bit confused over whether other calibres are allowed. If they are 6.5 creedmore (or similar) is an obvious choice. I would avoid like the plague shooting magnum calibres off a bipod unless you are Mark Wahlberg or something.

Anyways those are my ideas. Remember we have to shoot alongside fullbore shooters and F class so we need reasonable kit and don't want to piss them off with muzzle breaks etc.

cheers Andrew

[BATattack]

Mate your REALLY struggling to grasp the concept of S/H aren't you?

It is a FACTROY produced rifle. Not off the shelf semi custom from cleavers etc. FACTORY produced that everyone else has the same access to.

Pretty much any decent varmint / tactical rifle. Sako varmint rem vssf, rem 5r, tikka varmint, Lithgow varmint or Woomera, Ruger RPR.

I've seen a tikka 223 with a 1-8 shoot well at 1000 with a POS plastic stock. It's the nut behind the butt.

The rules allow for a barrel change to replace a worn out barrel. Maybe this should be banned as well to prevent people thinking they can change other aspects of the rifle as well.

If you want to build a rifle build one for FTR or FO don't build one to poach prizes off of new members we are trying to encourage into the sport.

[macguru]

Clearly I do not agree with your interpretation of SH. I hear what you are trying to say but I just dont agree with you, OK ?

[BATattack]

Well you don't have to agree with me but your disagreeing with the rules and that's why you got disqualified. Simple. If others are bending the rules and you feel hard done by maybe you should protest against them to make things fair?

Can I suggest you suck it up and lead by example? Buy yourself a genuine off the shelf factory rifle and go out and show the newbies what it is capable of in the rite hands. Show them what good technique, diligent reloading and wind reading skills can achieve and give them something to aspire to.

[macguru]

I believe I am leading by example by not giving in to you ... The rules are ambiguous and I believe my rifle in the spirit of SH and until they clean up the rules one way or another I will continue to do what I think is right. There is nothing about my setup that gives me an unfair advantage, regardless of what you think

[Tim L]

BATattack, your arguments are becoming very difficult to follow.
I'm not disagreeing with your comments here, your entitled to a pov. It would be useful, however, if you'd stay in the same place!

Show them what good technique, diligent reloading and wind reading skills can achieve and give them something to aspire to.

Vs

Having a 243 and the technique and loading ability to get it to shoot single hole groups at 200yds is well a over the level of the masses that we need to be trying to appeal to really increase numbers.

[BATattack]

Sorry Tim not really sure what your getting at? I don't really see them as contradicting comments.

I'll start with the second comment first. You obviously have knowledge and ability and that's what allowed start in F class at a higher level than many newbies that I've seen. . . . Or would like to attract. You were probably in the upper 20% if newbies.

First comment. If you, with your current experience at national and international level went out and purposely build a custom "S/H" rifle. Say Borden action, MDT ACC chassis, accutac bipod, nightforce beast scope, sphur mount, little bastard break, bartline heavy varmint maybe chambered in your favourite 6.5SLR running some of Ken's 140gr projectiles at say 2950fps out of formed Palma brass with an ES in the single digits. Realistically in your hands capable of 60s with early to mid X count. And you shoot it against a new shooter using a bog stock howa varmint in 6.5 creed and maybe a nightforce SHV . With his best handloads using Hornady brass, whatever projectiles he can get at his local gunshop done on a lee press using standard dies and a set of balance scales and a teaspoon in the back shed. In reality you are gonna flog him so hard using equipment that takes months or years to acquire and is possibly just financially out of his reach that they may not come back. Congratulations you have another medal in the draw with dozens of others. BUT if you were using comparable equipment you might still beat him but you might not absolutely flog him. Also he would see that the equipment your using is available and affordable to him. Then the internal question comes "what is Tim doing different?" And that's where the bug bites, aspiration starts and you have the opportunity to pass on great fundamentals to a new shooter and help grow the sport.

I like messing around with new shooting stuff as well. Building and shooting a custom repeater is fun (already done it) but I feel growing the sport buy bringing in NEW members is more important than giving people like us already involved in F class a discipline just to play in.

[Tim L]

OK, I get what you're saying.
I think you're making a few assumptions about me that might not be entirely accurate.

I actually AM the guy using a Lee press and Lee dies in the back of the shed.
My first Queens in 2014 was loaded using the same Lee press I use today, a set of $30 ebay "jewelry" scales and I seated using a stick to lever on a Wilson type die Phill Mastin made for me. For all the "improvements" I've made in the loading room, I can't say I've seen a huge improvement in accuracy. I can load faster, but can't say I shoot any better.
Maybe I should swap the Lee press for a ,,,?????
From what you're saying I appear to have fluked my way to accurate loading. I can accept that, so I guess using my experiences might not be the best way to assess others.

Anyway, I've asked Alan if we can run a sticky thread to try and develop these SH rules.

Not saying they will be adopted but the discussion can, at least, raise points of concern and suggest resolutions.
Hope to see you there once I've put together an intro.

[Downes Equestrian]

I'm really enjoying this conversation.. I agree with BATattack. Totally.
hard to say how the rules are going to change in the future but I think the idea of the class is to attract new shooters and for our club in western Qld it has done just that. Membership is up massively. I like most of shooters in the club came into it through S/H.
I'm also getting an F open rifle built at the moment so well done to the people who have thought up this class and got it going.
As for building a rifle and calling it an S/H rifle!! totally does my head in. I use my work/roo rifle which also does a great job on dogs/dingoes. It should stay this way otherwise it's just another f/class rifle

[Rich4]

OK, I get what you're saying.
I think you're making a few assumptions about me that might not be entirely accurate.

I actually AM the guy using a Lee press and Lee dies in the back of the shed.
My first Queens in 2014 was loaded using the same Lee press I use today, a set of $30 ebay "jewelry" scales and I seated using a stick to lever on a Wilson type die Phill Mastin made for me. For all the "improvements" I've made in the loading room, I can't say I've seen a huge improvement in accuracy. I can load faster, but can't say I shoot any better.
Maybe I should swap the Lee press for a ,,,?????
From what you're saying I appear to have fluked my way to accurate loading. I can accept that, so I guess using my experiences might not be the best way to assess others.

Anyway, I've asked Alan if we can run a sticky thread to try and develop these SH rules.

Not saying they will be adopted but the discussion can, at least, raise points of concern and suggest resolutions.
Hope to see you there once I've put together an intro.

Tim I don’t think he was saying you fluked anything, I took it to mean with your obvious knowledge the equipment doesn’t matter as much as it does to someone without that experience,
a good shooter will win with sub par equipment.
Lee equipment is emblematic of a the “cheap setup” which a lot of people start with, also known as a gateway drug,
more money just allows you to load the same quality faster.

[michaeljp65]

What they should do is put out a list of off the shelf rifles one can use in this category. That way it stops any bending or misinterpretation of the rules. If you want to buy a rifle not on the list, you have to email or ring the appropriate referees and ask if it fits the category.

[macguru]

So you guys are saying that someone should get an off the shelf rifle and try, and if its a shooter they get a good score (provided they can shoot) and if its not they should just give up ?

Why not let them change the stock or buy a better bipod ? Have you been to a gunshop lately and seen what people buy ? Tactical looking gear is more popular than wooden stocked hunting rifles. As long as it makes the weight and barrel limit it should be allowed.

And another thing ... The rules say "23.3.2 Actions may be bedded in the stock." So if its OK to modify your stock how is it not OK to buy a different stock provided it makes the weight ??

Andrew Beavis
North Sydney Rifle Club

[BATattack]

So you guys are saying that someone should get an off the shelf rifle and try, and if its a shooter they get a good score (provided they can shoot) and if its not they should just give up ?

Why not let them change the stock or buy a better bipod ? Have you been to a gunshop lately and seen what people buy ? Tactical looking gear is more popular than wooden stocked hunting rifles. As long as it makes the weight and barrel limit it should be allowed.

And another thing ... The rules say "23.3.2 Actions may be bedded in the stock." So if its OK to modify your stock how is it not OK to buy a different stock provided it makes the weight ??

Andrew Beavis
North Sydney Rifle Club

Ok I think you need to take a step back and speak to some people that have been shooting open for 15yrs and ask them how the discipline has evolved. People complain about how competitive it is and how expensive the equipment and barrel wear is just to put you within the ballpark of having a chance of winning. Guess what is going to happen to S/H in a few years if you want it to be OPEN un restricted custom rifles. Your looking at it now going "I can use my experience and knowledge from years of f class to build a rifle and win because there aren't many top shooters playing this game at the moment" give it a few years and that will change and you will outlay a lot of money and be back in the middle of the pack again complaining that 'i want a B grade S/H open division because I can't beat Rod , Matt, Tim, etc etc etc" . If you want to make it open just be prepared that it might not turn out how you think it will.

[BATattack]

OK, I get what you're saying.
I think you're making a few assumptions about me that might not be entirely accurate.

I actually AM the guy using a Lee press and Lee dies in the back of the shed.
My first Queens in 2014 was loaded using the same Lee press I use today, a set of $30 ebay "jewelry" scales and I seated using a stick to lever on a Wilson type die Phill Mastin made for me. For all the "improvements" I've made in the loading room, I can't say I've seen a huge improvement in accuracy. I can load faster, but can't say I shoot any better.
Maybe I should swap the Lee press for a ,,,?????
From what you're saying I appear to have fluked my way to accurate loading. I can accept that, so I guess using my experiences might not be the best way to assess others.

Anyway, I've asked Alan if we can run a sticky thread to try and develop these SH rules.

Not saying they will be adopted but the discussion can, at least, raise points of concern and suggest resolutions.
Hope to see you there once I've put together an intro.

Pretty much the opposite Tim. I'm saying you probably did / do well because you had more knowledge and skill than 80% of shooters that come into the sport.

What the f class lacks is something to attract those people that wake up and go "I don't own a gun, I've never shot but I would like to have a go at shooting and from what I've seen on you tube long range shooting seems pretty cool" "how can I have a go at that in a cost effective way for a few years while being competitive while I decide if this is the sport for me?"

NRAA steps in with a solution, they see improvement, achieve some success and the hook is set!

[macguru]

"Ok I think you need to take a step back and speak to some people that have been shooting open for 15yrs and ask them how the discipline has evolved. People complain about how competitive it is and how expensive the equipment and barrel wear is just to put you within the ballpark of having a chance of winning"

Actually I have been shooting open for over 10 years and I like the shooting style of SH as well. So I stand by all my comments and think the rules need to be written a bit more carefully, but my advice in the first post is spot on.