Sports Hunter Cheats

[Lithgow]

[macguru]

My rifle combo meets all the rules (weight under 6.5, barrel etc) but I was recently disqualified by a misguided Range Officer who felt the rifle had to be a factory original (i had put on an mdt stock)

I actually think the lithgow 105 is pretty close to ideal for this division

maybe a weight of 7kg would be ok ? I dont think it matters that much , its the style of shooting that determines alot of the accuracy limitations....

[Lithgow]

maybe a weight of 7kg would be ok ? I dont think it matters that much , its the style of shooting that determines alot of the accuracy limitations....

Weight is a substantial factor for overall stabilty, 6.5kgs is plenty, I'm currently sitting at 5.2 complete.

A Lithgow 105 would make weight with a light scope and Harris mounted on the sling stud but no other accessories.

[macguru]

That also depends on the calibre ... but a 308 at 6.4 kg feels good to me. If it was a 223 then lighter but I personally would not want to shoot it all the time under longer range or windy conditions. Maybe a 6.5 creedmore. They are usually lumping SH/STD and SH/OPEN together anyways .... How do you feel about that ??

[Gillwa]

That also depends on the calibre ... but a 308 at 6.4 kg feels good to me. If it was a 223 then lighter but I personally would not want to shoot it all the time under longer range or windy conditions. Maybe a 6.5 creedmore. They are usually lumping SH/STD and SH/OPEN together anyways .... How do you feel about that ??

Firstly I cannot find any reference to SH/STD and SH/OPEN only Sporting/Hunting Discipline (one Discipline). You mentioned that you changed the stock. Can you buy a Standard Factory made Savage 10 308 with the type of MDT stock which you put on? If you can you may have reason to complain but if you can't then you would not comply with the rules.

[macguru]

You can buy a savage with a similar but not identical model of MDT stock . I do not agree thats the intent of the rules in any case and i will continue to shoot my rifle...

[AlanF]

...I don't understand how so many are happy to bend the rules because this is a new class, Its still cheating!! If this was F Open and guys turned up 2kgs overweight, there would be protests lodged...

The best way of understanding it is to read the Chapter 23 rules, in particular the first one, which includes this :

The prime purpose for its introduction is to encourage participation, rather than competition...

Currently, if you want a tightly controlled competition, you need to shoot F-Class or TR. This situation may change, but in the meantime, don't blame ROs who make their own interpretation of these loosely defined rules.

[Lithgow]

The best way of understanding it is to read the Chapter 23 rules, in particular the first one, which includes this :

The prime purpose for its introduction is to encourage participation, rather than competition...

Currently, if you want a tightly controlled competition, you need to shoot F-Class or TR. This situation may change, but in the meantime, don't blame ROs who make their own interpretation of these loosely defined rules.

Absolute rubbish!

Whilst the rules for SH are pretty basic, they are still the SSRs to enter 'COMPETITION' for that class.

Also I havn't blamed an RO for anything, my rig is a true 'Hunting' rifle and meets the SSRs.

ROs should be disqualifying those that are outside the regs.

This category is to encourage new shooters to the sport and potentially advance through the classes, not use our memberships numbers to justify F Class shooters.

[macguru]

Well you are both right ..... the rules are AMBIGUOUS. It is not clear from the way they are worded whether a built rifle , within the weight and barrel limits, is legal or not. Or whether you have to use an unmodified store bought rifle. There is a mixed message there and there is room to interpret that message without being a 'cheat'

[AlanF]

LA105.

Are you expecting to get things changed by coming onto this forum and making accusations of cheating and accusing ROs of not doing their job? Things probably will change, but not due to impatient outbursts like yours. The SH Discipline is a well-intentioned initiative which is giving a lot of people pleasure. How about just going with the flow and accepting that its not exactly what you thought it would be.

[Lithgow]

LA105.

Are you expecting to get things changed by coming onto this forum and making accusations of cheating and accusing ROs of not doing their job? Things probably will change, but not due to impatient outbursts like yours. The SH Discipline is a well-intentioned initiative which is giving a lot of people pleasure. How about just going with the flow and accepting that its not exactly what you thought it would be.

Perhaps read my posts, I have not accused ROs of anything? Not once have I mentioned ROs apart from replying to you!

My post comes from shooting comps against rifles that don't meet the SSRs, allowances are being made to suit well known shooters, ie 8.5kgs is allowed for the City v Country V ACT Match in July, that's 2kgs above the SSRs. For those of us that shoot as per the rules, you must find it fair that we are now shooting against open caliber F Standard rigs??

[Rich4]

It seems as though there may be an undercurrent running strong here, the thread title is accusatory in itself.
I haven’t shot this class and am only competitive with myself, so my opinions are mine however I find this class attractive to encourage not only new shooters but drag open shooters back to a more “real world hunting rifle”.
Let’s face it, as wonderful as Fopen performance is, it is still very niche, even though the lessons learned can be applied elsewhere, sports hunter would allow actual observation of scalable results which can be applied in the field, without going to a PRS style competition. Therefore rifles should be something which would actually be hunted with, perhaps energy bottom limits(at the target) add a standing post with the same rifle?
Hunting should be more certain than target shooting, it’s a perfect match to my mind.

[macguru]

It certainly feels more 'real'

I think we need to work on the rules a bit to avoid all this silly bickering ....

[Tim L]

This category is to encourage new shooters to the sport and potentially advance through the classes, not use our memberships numbers to justify F Class shooters.

You are correct on the first part but perhaps a little bias on the second.
F class have said much the same about TR. The truth is, Fclass wouldn't exist if TR had not developed into a competitive sport. SH wouldn't exist if Fclass hadn't developed into competitive disciplins in their own right. In the early days it was TR supporting Fclass. Now it's TR and Fclass supporting SH until it develops into a competitve class of it's own. ie until the numbers support including it as a class of it's own there may well need to be "compromises" on the rules. Not compromising might lead to there not being enough shooters to justify prizes and, therefore, cancelation of the class.

The NRAA might have to look at this from a broader perspective simply because not all rifles can shoot the ranges we currently shoot. In the US they shoot Mid range (300yds -600m) and longs (700m - 1000yds) [I'm not sure where 700yds sits] maybe the NRAA needs to consider this insted of daily aggrigates hav mid and long aggrgates.
And a question, which I've framed from comments made on another SH thread.
Are there any off the shelf hunting style rifles, shooting factory ammo, capable of:
1 remaining supersonic, and
2 holding the black on an ICFRA target, at
A 700m
B 800m
C 1000 yds.?

[BATattack]

LA105.

Are you expecting to get things changed by coming onto this forum and making accusations of cheating and accusing ROs of not doing their job? Things probably will change, but not due to impatient outbursts like yours. The SH Discipline is a well-intentioned initiative which is giving a lot of people pleasure. How about just going with the flow and accepting that its not exactly what you thought it would be.

Perhaps read my posts, I have not accused ROs of anything? Not once have I mentioned ROs apart from replying to you!

My post comes from shooting comps against rifles that don't meet the SSRs, allowances are being made to suit well known shooters, ie 8.5kgs is allowed for the City v Country V ACT Match in July, that's 2kgs above the SSRs. For those of us that shoot as per the rules, you must find it fair that we are now shooting against open caliber F Standard rigs??

If this is happening it is wrong. Weight is an extremely simple rule to interpret and enforce. Did you lodge an official protest or just suggest to the RO that they were not playing by the rules? I have seen similar as the other f class's have grown and rules have changed and ROs and competitors have learnt the rules. The problem usually come from either inexperienced shooters not knowing the rules, experienced shooters exploiting a grey area and also ROs not actually knowing the rules of newer disciplines.

If you lodge an official protest the and state the rule that you believe is being broken it's the ROs role to pull out a copy of the SSRs, review the rule and make a judgement. If you aren't willing or confident enough to do this then you will need to learn to accept cheating.

I've seen this happen at high level events. Quite often its experienced shooters who have competed nationally and internationally that try and bluff the RO that they have "been everywhere man and they have let me do it before" and pretend to know the rules better than the RO. The RO retreats because they think the experienced shooter knows the rules better than them. This is wrong but it can be managed by talking through the rule and your interpretation of it with the RO when you make the protest. The RO can then make their own decision before approaching the experienced shooter so they have little influence over the outcome.

At the end of the day it's a competition and unfortunately some people would gather go home with a medal than go home knowing they have played fair.