WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

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BD28
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:14 am

WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#1 Postby BD28 » Sun May 23, 2021 9:28 am

Hey guys,

Cant find any 185 juggs in the country and need to get 2 to my gunsmith for some freebore measurement. I'm also chasing two 200.20X to do the same thing.

I will pay $25 for someone to post me 2 projectiles in an envelope :mrgreen:

Located in Brisbane

Julian D
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:42 am
Location: Mackay

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#2 Postby Julian D » Sun May 23, 2021 10:57 am

PM me your address, I have a couple spare of each.

Barossa_222
Posts: 248
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:58 pm
Location: Barossa Valley

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#3 Postby Barossa_222 » Sun May 23, 2021 11:58 am

Get him to throat it about .120-.180 and you'll be alright.

tachyon
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#4 Postby tachyon » Sun May 23, 2021 1:11 pm

The 200.20x projectiles are superior to the 185s.

A 0.120” throat is what you need to have the beginning of the boat tail (end of the bearing surface) about 1/2 way down the neck at jam for the 200.20x.

At that you have a COAL of ~3.05” with 99-100% case fill over 43.4gr of 2208 which will deliver 2640 fps out of a 30” barrel.

BD28
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:14 am

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#5 Postby BD28 » Sun May 23, 2021 5:09 pm

tachyon wrote:The 200.20x projectiles are superior to the 185s.

A 0.120” throat is what you need to have the beginning of the boat tail (end of the bearing surface) about 1/2 way down the neck at jam for the 200.20x.

At that you have a COAL of ~3.05” with 99-100% case fill over 43.4gr of 2208 which will deliver 2640 fps out of a 30” barrel.


Great advice Tach thanks mate! I have heard the 200.20X need in the vicinity of .160 - .180 free bore to work. What's your thoughts on this?

tachyon
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#6 Postby tachyon » Sun May 23, 2021 11:13 pm

BD28 wrote:I have heard the 200.20X need in the vicinity of .160 - .180 free bore to work. What's your thoughts on this?


In my experience 200.20x bullets like a very short jump - I use ~ 0.004" ie just enough to clear the lands so I can get an intact cartridge out.

Freebore has (within limits) little (or nothing) to do with working. Effective case capacity, jump/jam, and neck tension all do and while freebore can impact all of these it is not that critical. The previously mentioned 0.120-0.180 is a good ballpark but you could almost certainly get away with anything from 0.040-0.200.

More freebore gives you more case capacity for a given jump which is fine IF you want to put in more powder and run towards the upper limits. If you don't want to push over (say) 2700 fps then the extra case capacity is not being used and allows the powder more wiggle room. I struggle to see powder wiggle room increasing shot to shot consistency.

The neck/shoulder junction datum on a 308 is 1.712" and the case length 2.015" so the neck is 0.303" (at 2.015") or 0.293 (trimmed to 2.005"). In ballpark terms 0.120 freebore puts the boattail/bearing junction of a 200.20x just past mid-neck deep so (say) ~ 0.160" of neck providing the neck tension. If you think in metric then given that 40 thou (0.040") is 1mm there is about 4mm of neck brass holding the projectile at jam. With a 0.160" freebore that would be 0.120" (3mm) and with 0.180" freebore that would be 0.100" (2.5mm). Depending on the angle of your internal neck chamfer there is actually even less length holding the projectile.

Most people agree neck tension plays a role in accuracy. Neck tension is the combination of the circumferential resize tension, the length of bearing surface/neck engagement and the frictional coefficient of the internal neck (carbonized or squeaky clean). Necks grow but the %change in bearing surface is less if you have a more deeply seated bullet.

So, there is no doubt that either 0.160 or 0.180 will work but as the lands in the lead erode and your freebore elongates you have 40 thou less wiggle room to chase the lands.

Yes, I'm aware of Eric Cortina's video asserting that chasing the lands is stupid, but in some of his other videos he does precisely that when he checks if seating depth longer and shorter than his current seating depth work better. He's right that the number does not matter (just the result) and he's also right that it changes over the life of a barrel.

BATattack
Posts: 1086
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:29 pm

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#7 Postby BATattack » Mon May 24, 2021 12:32 pm

One thought. . . . .do you think it's a good idea to be chasing samples to set up a barrel for bullets you can't get and possibly won't be able to get for a while?

tachyon
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#8 Postby tachyon » Mon May 24, 2021 2:01 pm

BATattack wrote:One thought. . . . .do you think it's a good idea to be chasing samples to set up a barrel for bullets you can't get and possibly won't be able to get for a while?


Sarastore are out of stock but both BRT and the Q-Store have Berger 200.20x projectiles in stock

https://www.brtshooterssupply.com.au/pr ... id-target/
https://q-store.com.au/shop/product/304 ... -30417-523

BD28
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:14 am

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#9 Postby BD28 » Mon May 24, 2021 5:36 pm

BATattack wrote:One thought. . . . .do you think it's a good idea to be chasing samples to set up a barrel for bullets you can't get and possibly won't be able to get for a while?


Agree mate but as stated I can get 200.20X and that's likely the way i will go, was just keen to get my hands on a 185 to see if a throat could be done to possibly utilize either if needed. We should see 185's again soon.

Julian
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:28 pm

Re: WTB A SINGLE PROJECTILE: Berger 185 jugg / 200.20X hybrid

#10 Postby Julian » Fri May 28, 2021 9:31 pm

How did you go mate? I have a couple of 185 Juggs that I can post free of charge if you are still needing them.

PM your details if still required.


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