7w/6.5 load

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heritage5
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:19 pm

7w/6.5 load

#1 Postby heritage5 » Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:36 pm

Hi all I have a necked up 6.5 prc to 7mm trying to get 180 hybrid target to shoot I am at 60.5 of 2217 2950 fps but am struggling to get them to group with different seating depth and slightly different powder charges MY 6.5 PRC WITH 153.5 AND 156 Bergers shoot
well but am struggling with the 7mm any advice or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Guy Grining
STRAHAN TAS

willow
Posts: 579
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#2 Postby willow » Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:31 pm

2217 is way too slow once you neck this up to 7mm. It changes the characteristics of the case significantly. 2209 and 2213sc will be your best bet. Or if you are lucky and happen to have some RL16 or RL23, they would work too. I found 2213sc to be a tad inconsistent and have found a stable load with 2209 - about 52.7-52.8gr is giving me some nice data and groups around 2840 - 2850fps with Berger 184gr hybrids. With 180's you might run a touch faster if the barrel likes it.

While this case can take a beating, I don't think it's ideal pushing it over 2900fps - that's what a SAUM is designed for and the only reason why I see Bryan Blake necked this thing up but shortened the case neck significantly. I found pressure signs around 53.4gr of 2209 which was up around 2900fps. This is with a Borden BRMXD action and 30" Cheetah barrel, 8 twist.

heritage5
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:19 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#3 Postby heritage5 » Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:57 pm

Thanks willow

Frank Green
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#4 Postby Frank Green » Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:30 pm

These seem to be pretty popular loads over here...and supposedly give velocities in the 2900-2950fps range but.... no one knows what real world the pressures are running at.

Rl 16 54.5
N555 56.5
Rl 23 57.5

I do have a ammunition pressure test barrel being made out in the shop. It's a 1-8 twist, 5R rifling and will be a 32" finish length. It will be a piezo (electronic transducer pressure test barrel).

I've got Berger 180 Hybrids supplied by Berger. Sierra supplied 183's and 197SMK's. Hornady supplied 166 and 190gr Atip bullets as well as I do have Hornady 180ELDM's as well.

Hornady also supplied the brass. I told them that I had brass I could use and they asked me not to use the supplied brass I had. Because.... with them supplying the brass (6.5PRC that I will neck up) they have already tested that lot and have calibration numbers for it. So that can be plugged into the data for calibration. So it will remove a variable of the brass being an unknown.

I will supply all lot numbers of the bullets and powder and powder charges being used as well as the primers etc...

I have N555 powder, H1000, H4831sc and H4350. Right now I cannot get my hands on any RL16 or RL23. I'm working on it.

The test barrel will be done by Feb. sometime. I just received the brass last week. So I have to start prepping that. Once everything is sent to Hornady they will schedule the testing in as soon as they can. We are supplying the test barrel and all that work at n/c. Hornady will be doing all the testing at n/c.

So thanks to all the suppliers that did supply components to me for doing this and for Hornady willing to do the testing. This will be the best we can get for now for getting real world pressure and velocity test data.

I've got some Shooters World Powder I can load up as well. The SW4350 which is suppose to be a little slower than H4350 and Long Rifle powder which is suppose to be the equivalent to H4350.

If anyone has any other suggestions I'm open to them.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Frank Green
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#5 Postby Frank Green » Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:32 pm

I'm still waiting on reloading dies to get here as well. I can neck up the brass and load virgin brass but I cannot resize brass at this time till my dies come. I already have our chamber reamer.

heritage5
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:19 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#6 Postby heritage5 » Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:00 am

Thanks Frank look forward to seeing the results

Guy

JezL
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:03 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#7 Postby JezL » Wed Jan 10, 2024 12:22 pm

Thanks Frank!

Curious though ... This is still a "wildcat" cartridge and not a SAAMI ( 7-6.5PRC... being the 6.5 PRC and 7 PRC are SAAMI though ).
So why would Hornady and Berger want pressure testing done on the 7-6.5 PRC wildcat / Variant ?? Assuming Horndary / Berger have come to you to do the test? or someone else?

... I would assume pressure testing is done on new cartridge (or bullet) design by Bullet / Ammo manufacturer's if they were going to supply "factory" ammunition, or something similar??

Definitely look forward to seeing your results :)
Regards,
Jez

Frank Green
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#8 Postby Frank Green » Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:06 pm

JezL wrote:Thanks Frank!

Curious though ... This is still a "wildcat" cartridge and not a SAAMI ( 7-6.5PRC... being the 6.5 PRC and 7 PRC are SAAMI though ).
So why would Hornady and Berger want pressure testing done on the 7-6.5 PRC wildcat / Variant ?? Assuming Horndary / Berger have come to you to do the test? or someone else?

... I would assume pressure testing is done on new cartridge (or bullet) design by Bullet / Ammo manufacturer's if they were going to supply "factory" ammunition, or something similar??

Definitely look forward to seeing your results :)


Being done for a couple of reasons. One is how fast the popularity of it has taken off. Another is a guy just two months ago blew up a gun. I think the blow up though was caused by a round with the wrong powder in it period. My speculation on the info I got and the pictures I seen.

I see loads listed all over the place on different forums.

No at this time I don’t see it becoming a Saami type round but with a few different places now making brass for it who knows what will happen. Yes there is no standard for the round either because it’s not Saami. The reamer we have at the shop has about a .010” to .015” shorter throat but is pretty close to a couple of popular spec chambers out there. So by making the pressure test barrel and actually doing real world testing it will give us a good baseline as to what this thing is running at.

So when I see one guy saying his max load is at 51gr of X powder and another guy saying he has no problem running the same powder out of his gun at a 56gr powder charge we don’t have any baselines to really no what is going on and what is in the ballpark or not for safety issues etc…

So I asked Hornady if they would do the testing. We’ve worked together in the past on things like this and they were all for it. Same with Sierra Bullets. Tommy there and I/we do work together on things as well and as Tommy put it… this would be a good thing for the whole community.

There are other cartridges/calibers out there that even though are not Saami spec/standard pressure testing has been done on them just because of the popularity of it.

Later, Frank

JezL
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:03 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#9 Postby JezL » Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:50 pm

Thanks Frank.
Yeah thats great to hear and as you said " … this would be a good thing for the whole community."
Much appreciated.

Interestingly you mention Brass ... I have only seen ADG possilbly making brass for this as the "7-6.5PRC"... will there be others you think ?? " ... with a few different places now making brass for it ... "
Regards,
Jez

willow
Posts: 579
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#10 Postby willow » Wed Jan 10, 2024 8:42 pm

Frank Green wrote:These seem to be pretty popular loads over here...and supposedly give velocities in the 2900-2950fps range but.... no one knows what real world the pressures are running at.

Rl 16 54.5
N555 56.5
Rl 23 57.5

I do have a ammunition pressure test barrel being made out in the shop. It's a 1-8 twist, 5R rifling and will be a 32" finish length. It will be a piezo (electronic transducer pressure test barrel).

I've got Berger 180 Hybrids supplied by Berger. Sierra supplied 183's and 197SMK's. Hornady supplied 166 and 190gr Atip bullets as well as I do have Hornady 180ELDM's as well.

Hornady also supplied the brass. I told them that I had brass I could use and they asked me not to use the supplied brass I had. Because.... with them supplying the brass (6.5PRC that I will neck up) they have already tested that lot and have calibration numbers for it. So that can be plugged into the data for calibration. So it will remove a variable of the brass being an unknown.

I will supply all lot numbers of the bullets and powder and powder charges being used as well as the primers etc...

I have N555 powder, H1000, H4831sc and H4350. Right now I cannot get my hands on any RL16 or RL23. I'm working on it.

The test barrel will be done by Feb. sometime. I just received the brass last week. So I have to start prepping that. Once everything is sent to Hornady they will schedule the testing in as soon as they can. We are supplying the test barrel and all that work at n/c. Hornady will be doing all the testing at n/c.

So thanks to all the suppliers that did supply components to me for doing this and for Hornady willing to do the testing. This will be the best we can get for now for getting real world pressure and velocity test data.

I've got some Shooters World Powder I can load up as well. The SW4350 which is suppose to be a little slower than H4350 and Long Rifle powder which is suppose to be the equivalent to H4350.

If anyone has any other suggestions I'm open to them.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels


It would be very interesting to see your results with H4350 and H4831sc Frank - they're the two we most commonly have access to over here. I tried 2217 (H1000) and couldn't get enough powder in the case to effectively drive a 184gr hybrid. Alliant powders are unobtanium over here while there's some Vitahuori starting to trickle in, you need to sell a kidney to be able to afford it. It will be interesting to see how the Hornady brass holds up, I'd be stunned if it performs as well as Lapua or ADG.

Frank Green
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#11 Postby Frank Green » Wed Jan 10, 2024 11:33 pm

JezL wrote:Thanks Frank.
Yeah thats great to hear and as you said " … this would be a good thing for the whole community."
Much appreciated.

Interestingly you mention Brass ... I have only seen ADG possilbly making brass for this as the "7-6.5PRC"... will there be others you think ?? " ... with a few different places now making brass for it ... "


I should have the ADG brass here anytime now. I know they made a prototype run and know of a couple of people that have used it and were happy with it.

The stuff we will be getting I think will be a preproduction run of the official first run. Can't remember what he told me.

Frank Green
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#12 Postby Frank Green » Wed Jan 10, 2024 11:39 pm

It would be very interesting to see your results with H4350 and H4831sc Frank - they're the two we most commonly have access to over here. I tried 2217 (H1000) and couldn't get enough powder in the case to effectively drive a 184gr hybrid. Alliant powders are unobtanium over here while there's some Vitahuori starting to trickle in, you need to sell a kidney to be able to afford it. It will be interesting to see how the Hornady brass holds up, I'd be stunned if it performs as well as Lapua or ADG.[/quote]

I'll load up some H4350 and some H4831sc.

If any of you have any other load suggestions... I'm all ears.

The Hornady brass is fine. The 6.5CM brass and 300PRC and others I've used from Hornady I've used I haven't had any issues with. Most of my loads are with in reason/normal. I'm not beating the gun/brass up with really hot loads.

In pressure and velocity testing as far as I know.... they only fire the case one time. It will leave a small ring on the brass case body about .175" back from the shoulder from the pressure sensor/port.

Later, Frank

macguru
Posts: 1630
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#13 Postby macguru » Thu Jan 11, 2024 7:13 am

Sorry to interrupt but I cannot see why you cannot just load a 7PRC to the same ballistics as the wildcat 6.5/7. Except that you need a long action I guess. ?
id quod est

JezL
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:03 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#14 Postby JezL » Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:31 pm

macguru wrote:Sorry to interrupt but I cannot see why you cannot just load a 7PRC to the same ballistics as the wildcat 6.5/7. Except that you need a long action I guess. ?


Simple ... no Lapua brass in 7 PRC hahaha

7 PRC is about ~15gr of H20 more then the 7-6.5 PRC (77gr? vs 60gr?) ... so the case fill ratio may not be ideal if trying to achieve "same" ballistics ??
Regards,
Jez

Frank Green
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: 7w/6.5 load

#15 Postby Frank Green » Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:35 pm

macguru wrote:Sorry to interrupt but I cannot see why you cannot just load a 7PRC to the same ballistics as the wildcat 6.5/7. Except that you need a long action I guess. ?


As JezL just said.... to the 7Saum is too much case capacity. It won't be as efficient as the 7/6.5PRC. Also brass will be easier to come by. At least here in the states. Nothing bad meant by that guys!

The 7/6.5PRC can do what the 284win can but easier. So the brass life should be longer would be another benefit.


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