Why not 6.5 PRC for 'midrange' F-class?

[AlanF]

6.5prc one barrel has done 1200 rounds the other 1300 both still in good condition with minimal fire cracking.

I used a 6.5-284 for about 6 barrels and very few of them shot well after about 1200. There are many variables however, and I know one or two who claimed to get over 2000 without a rechamber. That was using a powder (2217) that was too slow and hence inefficient and getting sub-optimal velocity. It'd be interesting to know how much you were running your PRC at optimal velocity to give it 7mm beating ballistics. Also what style of shooting? For example shooting long strings at sub-20 second intervals is quite common in F-Open, particularly on ETs. I'm not familiar with some of the newer competition formats, but suspect that some of them don't involve the same barrel temperatures as F-Open string fire?

[John Weigel]

Is it the case if that barrels are likely to live much longer if temptation to keep shooting when too hot? Watching some of the videos from F C John and others, I cringe to see what lengthy strings of repetitive shots they undertake. Not just the standard strings of 20 shots in comps. Strings of 30 in five minute sessions seems to be the norm. John talks about barrel life of as little as 800 for straight 284s. Seems that avoiding those sessions where molten barrel is apt to emerge with projectiles is the key to the 1500 or more rounds we seem to get out of our 284s over here.

I guess cost of chambered barrels, if $1 per round over projected life seems high, and getting the job done by top gunsmiths is perhaps just as much of a factor. Of course projectiles, powder, primers, and say, 1/10th cost of brass per shot - all combined, would be bumping around the $2 per shot as it is - especially if shortage-inspired stupid prices must be paid for favoured components.

Shobby, what you have found re the 6.5 PRC is encouraging for a closer look.

[Shobby]

Happy to share Alan.
I'm using 150gn plus grain projecticles with 8.5gns less of a slower powder than my 7mm SAUM. They are running at 2950fps which is very similar to my 7mm Saum running 180 VLD's.
I shoot F Open using the 6.5prc out from 700 yards.

[Shobby]

Hi John.
Its the availabilty now of high BC 6.5mm projectiles coupled with lower charge of a slower burning powder than what I use in my 7mm SAUM for the same results. It so far appears after 2 years I'll have better barrel life.

[macguru]

I am just going to use it for sh/prs , so i dont need the accuracy of f open. but i am hoping to use my 2213 and whatever projectiles i can find ...

[AlanF]

Happy to share Alan.
I'm using 150gn plus grain projecticles with 8.5gns less of a slower powder than my 7mm SAUM. They are running at 2950fps which is very similar to my 7mm Saum running 180 VLD's.
I shoot F Open using the 6.5prc out from 700 yards.

One of the best things about F-Open is that you can choose your own calibre, chambering, powder, projectiles etc. i.e. you can put your own ideas into practice. I've actually predicted on another thread that with the new heavier high BC 6.5mm projectiles from Berger, Sierra etc. that 6.5mm may be the next big thing in F-Open. But I suspect that cooler burning powders and improved wear resistance in barrels will be needed before that happens.

[Frank Green]

I'll throw my .02 cents in here....

It is a barrel burner. In terms of ammunition pressure test barrels they burn them out in as little as 400 rounds and if they are lucky they will get 800 or so. An average round count is about 600 rounds. Goes back to how is it being shot....rate of fire, type of powder, type of bullet etc...

Peak life for accuracy....again my opinion...probably 500 rounds.

You have to keep up with keeping the barrel clean as well. This is one of those cartridges you let it get away from you...it's going to cause problems and your going to work your butt off to get it back...if you get it back. I've seen it both from shooters....and from ammo/bullet makers run into issues with it. Not just one or two times but more than I can count times.

I did a 6.5PRC barrel as a thought when I didn't want to run the 300PRC on my F class gun....I won't make another 6.5PRC barrel for that gun ever again. Yes my barrels are free but my time is worth something to me to put it on and to me it's just not worth it. So for lets say 500 rounds of peak accuracy/barrel life...you work up loads, run it at a small match or do some practice with it....and you have enough barrel life to go to one big match and your pulling it.

Your loading about 10 grains more powder into the 6.5PRC vs. the 6.5x284.

Talk about barrel burners.... Not a great comparison but look at the 26 Nosler...there your loading even more powder than the 6.5PRC and I have yet to hear of a pressure test barrel making it past 450 rounds. I won't name the bullet/ammo maker but just a year ago they where testing the 26 and 28 Nosler. The barrels changed/wore so fast that they barrel got enough load data for the 28 Nosler and the 26 Nosler they actually gave up on and wouldn't include it in they're new reloading manual.

There is a price to pay to go fast!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

[PeteFox]

'Im still asking the question have these Forum members making comments every shot the case over a good period of time.
I have.
6.5/.284 between 800 and 1000 rounds. 6.5prc one barrel has done 1200 rounds the other 1300 both still in good condition with minimal fire cracking. I also shot .284 and 7Saum.

Question answered

I'll throw my .02 cents in here....

It is a barrel burner. In terms of ammunition pressure test barrels they burn them out in as little as 400 rounds and if they are lucky they will get 800 or so. An average round count is about 600 rounds. Goes back to how is it being shot....rate of fire, type of powder, type of bullet etc...

Peak life for accuracy....again my opinion...probably 500 rounds.

You have to keep up with keeping the barrel clean as well. This is one of those cartridges you let it get away from you...it's going to cause problems and your going to work your butt off to get it back...if you get it back. I've seen it both from shooters....and from ammo/bullet makers run into issues with it. Not just one or two times but more than I can count times.

I did a 6.5PRC barrel as a thought when I didn't want to run the 300PRC on my F class gun....I won't make another 6.5PRC barrel for that gun ever again. Yes my barrels are free but my time is worth something to me to put it on and to me it's just not worth it. So for lets say 500 rounds of peak accuracy/barrel life...you work up loads, run it at a small match or do some practice with it....and you have enough barrel life to go to one big match and your pulling it.

Your loading about 10 grains more powder into the 6.5PRC vs. the 6.5x284.

Talk about barrel burners.... Not a great comparison but look at the 26 Nosler...there your loading even more powder than the 6.5PRC and I have yet to hear of a pressure test barrel making it past 450 rounds. I won't name the bullet/ammo maker but just a year ago they where testing the 26 and 28 Nosler. The barrels changed/wore so fast that they barrel got enough load data for the 28 Nosler and the 26 Nosler they actually gave up on and wouldn't include it in they're new reloading manual.

There is a price to pay to go fast!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

[macguru]

Sounds OK for occasional tactical/"hunting" rifle, I am going to give it a try. Not selling my saum just yet though

[Frank Green]

Sounds OK for occasional tactical/"hunting" rifle, I am going to give it a try. Not selling my saum just yet though

As a hunting round...it's a great round. Several of the guys here have it built on hunting rifles with no issues...other than you have to keep up with the cleaning.

Tactical shooters...I don't recommend it either. Been at too many PRS matches and they are putting up to 120 rounds on the gun in a day and they don't clean it prior to the next day of shooting and then I get the questions...."Hey my gun quit shooting/isn't shooting good anymore!" What do you think? First question I ask..."Did you clean it last night?"

Probably a good comparison case capacity wise is 6.5WSM. Your running about the same powder charge to maybe like 3 or 4gr. more depending on the powder and how your loading it but it's pretty close. So a 270 case necked down to 6.5mm. One of my good shooting buddies decided to try the 6.5WSM for his F class gun. I said..." Order three barrels!" he asked why. I said I don't think you will get 600 rounds out of the barrel. Later that year at a match we where talking about his 6.5WSM. He said he went back to a 7mm/270wsm. I asked why. He said the 6.5WSM shot great but each barrel died right around 560 rounds. He never made it to 600 with any of the three barrels.

Dave in the shop has three PRS built rifles. One is in 6.5PRC. The barrel on that gun is with our different grade of material we call 400modBB. Which has been helping barrel life. At about 860 rounds at a match he had a bullet blow up on him. He brought the gun into the shop and asked me to look at it. A lot of cracking in the throat area of the barrel but no chunks of metal where missing. It was extremely carbon fouled. Clean it real good. He did and we looked at it again. I said not good enough. Give the barrel a light finish lap and lets look at it again. I'll say he got about 90% of the fouling out. The barrel now has over 1100 rounds on it. No bullet failures and it still shoots pretty good but it's done. He won't take it to a match anymore. He's pulling it off this winter and putting a new barrel on it. I also don't think he is going back to 6.5PRC on that gun.

[heritage5]

6.5 prc barrel life
I have been shooting a 65prc since coming back to shooting my second barrel a hardy 5r has 1850 rounds down and still shoots better than me half moa I run 156 bergers @3020.

Guy

[Shobby]

"Question Answered " Peter. If you don't do it you don't know.
It's a great accurate case Heritage5 with acceptable barrel life if you want to shoot high BC 6.5m projectiles with ballistics that match the 7mm SAUM that can't be done with the .284 only if you want to trash cases and barrels.

[AlanF]

"Question Answered " Peter. If you don't do it you don't know.
It's a great accurate case Heritage5 with acceptable barrel life if you want to shoot high BC 6.5m projectiles with ballistics that match the 7mm SAUM that can't be done with the .284 only if you want to trash cases and barrels.

Shobby, in the interests of providing reliable advice to new shooters, I'm going to take issue with your last statement. Firstly you've just cherry picked one (anonymous) opinion and ignored several from well-known and credentialled others. Secondly, your conclusion is flawed. A 156gn Berger EOL at 3020fps does not match 7mm SAUM ballistics when using any one of several projectiles from Berger and Sierra. Note that the key requirement for F-Open ballistics is minimising wind deflection at long range. For example a 190gn Berger needs a MV of only about 2785fps to match the quoted 6.5 PRC performance you're using, and a SAUM will drive them much faster than that.

[PeteFox]

In the interest of getting the numbers right I plugged some data into a ballistic calculator (Strelok). I used the 6.5 Berger 156EOL and the 7mm Berger 190hybrid for comparison because these are right at the top of Berger's claimed ballistic coefficient for each bullet diameter.

I used the claimed 6.5PRC muzzle velocity of 3020fps for the 156gn Berger EOL.
For the Berger 190 Hybrid I used 7 SAUM velocity of 2900fps (guesstimate) and for the 284Win 2720fps (measured) for wind corrections calculated for a 10mph crosswind at 600yd, 1000yd and 1200yd.
the data are in the table.

6.5vs7mm ballistics.jpg

In terms of the corrections needed the 6.5 is nearer the .284 than the 7SAUM. There is only around 1/10 moa separating the 6.5 and 284W, and nearer to 0.5moa between the 6.5and SAUM.

The original topic question was "Why not 6.5 PRC for 'midrange' F-class". The answer to "Why Not?" is at midrange, based on the data in the table, there is bugger all to be gained and based on the advice from Frank Green, a lot to lose.

This fruitless argument has been going on for years. A 6.5 cannot match a 7mm for ballistics using 'normal' cartridges. In the end it is about what works for the shooter.
It's a bit like the Ford and Holden argument, who gives a toss unless you own one, and then it's just a form of confirmation bias.

The problem is the dissemination of crap information.
Pete

[macguru]

Can I have some advice about starting loads with 6.5prc, 2213 and sierra 140s please ?
I was thinking 53gr and work up to 55gr but am I being conservative ?