Moly - who still uses it??

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Tim N
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Moly - who still uses it??

#1 Postby Tim N » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:54 pm

Hi All
I recently loaded some rounds for my 6 Dasher that were decided on 5 yrs ago.
At that time moly was popular so rather than change anything a friend mollied some more projectiles for me and the next batch are ready to go.
Just wondering if many still moly bullets(or any other coating)?
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

KHGS
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#2 Postby KHGS » Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:43 pm

Tim N wrote:Hi All
I recently loaded some rounds for my 6 Dasher that were decided on 5 yrs ago.
At that time moly was popular so rather than change anything a friend mollied some more projectiles for me and the next batch are ready to go.
Just wondering if many still moly bullets(or any other coating)?


I am a dinosaur.......I have used moly for over 20 years and still do.
Keith H.

AlanF
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#3 Postby AlanF » Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:03 am

I've used moly for about 15 years, abandoned it for about a year recently, but now back to it again. Reasons, minimises copper fouling in tight twist barrels, smooths out bullet seating force.

Gyro
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#4 Postby Gyro » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:54 am

I would be reckoning for the reasons u describe Alan it would/could help lots but I suspect with many other ‘normal’ barrels it won’t provide any gains and will instead introduce other potentially detrimental variables and dynamics. A barrel that for whatever reason wants to foul more than is desirable could be a good candidate for moly too, as with using a bullet with a relatively long bearing surface.

Otherwise just clean your barrel properly at the end of the days shooting, or maybe it will survive two days shooting between cleans. Then check with a borescope to make sure u have in fact cleaned it sufficiently. Then fire a fouler or two and ya back in the middle. Hopefully !

I believe a few top shooters use moly but remember those shooters have tons of knowledge and experience so can manage any problems and variables that may appear.

Does using a medium of whatever sort to help uniform bullet grip, or bullet release forces, help ??? Lord knows but I begin to think that theory is just another one from the “feel good” file.

My current 284AI FO barrel copper fouls minimally ( using 2209 and 180 hybrids ) but it gets blacker and blacker as the round count climbs throughout the breech end section. And I mean a hard black glazed-on coating that does NOT come out with ‘normal’ cleaning and THAT is something that needs monitoring, way ahead of any coppering problems IMO. But that too can be managed. Moly could help there too ? I've only tried it once on a barrel that was an inconsistent pig and it carried on being the same pig with the moly too.

AlanF
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#5 Postby AlanF » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:12 am

Gyro wrote:...My current 284AI FO barrel copper fouls minimally ( using 2209 and 180 hybrids ) but it gets blacker and blacker as the round count climbs throughout the breech end section. And I mean a hard black glazed-on coating that does NOT come out with ‘normal’ cleaning and THAT is something that needs monitoring, way ahead of any coppering problems IMO. But that too can be managed. Moly could help there too ?...

Yes I still get what I call "ceramic" carbon in the grooves in a short zone not far from the chamber, particularly with "dirtier" powders such as 2213SC. I believe that over the course of a day's shooting this worsens enough to cause copper to be rubbed off the projectiles and deposited further up the barrel, particularly in my 8 twist barrels. Molyed projectiles seem to delay this coppering, presumably because there is less friction over the carbon fouled zone. I don't try to leave moly in the barrel after cleaning, would rather clean back to metal then prep with KG6, and with most barrels its only the first shot that is substantially down on velocity.

Tim L
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#6 Postby Tim L » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:35 am

I still use moly (and 1 barrel on WS2) in FTR. It's worth about a grain of powder. (ie if you add moly you need to add a gran of powder to get the same velocity)
Its also an effective neck lube.
I'll shoot about 300 rounds between cleans and then jb the barrel. A wipe through with a patch with moly suspended in alcohol puts the gun straight back on line.

I believe moly does offer lubricating properties in the barrel, hence the velocity drop and lack of copper fouling. I also suspect its presence on the barrel surface reduces carbon fouling because the carbon has nothing to bond to. It bonds to the surface layer of moly, which does not bond to the barrel so just gets removed as you go. Just a theory but one that keeps me happy.

johnk
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#7 Postby johnk » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:25 am

KHGS wrote:
Tim N wrote:I am a dinosaur.......I have used moly for over 20 years and still do.
Keith H.

We must have come out of the same nest. 8)

Hahndorf 1874
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#8 Postby Hahndorf 1874 » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:48 am

I used it in a 6 m PPC ,A REM 700 ,Hart barrel would go .5 @ 200yds ,always cleaned the same as a non moly , ie Sweets and Sweets Oil.after every shoot, The present owner says it still goes just as good now.

Mal.

RDavies
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#9 Postby RDavies » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:24 am

I still use it in barrels which need it.
If a barrel cant get through a days shooting without cleaning, due to copper build up, then I will certainly try moly and check again if it is now able to go a full days shooting without losing accuracy.
If a barrel is able to shoot for a full day, then I usually wont bother with moly, as I prefer to leave all barrels soaking in solvent overnight anyway regardless of whether I am running moly or bare.
Lately all of my barrels have nor needed moly, but a few of my older 6mm barrels do.

Gyro
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#10 Postby Gyro » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:59 pm

Tell me this please : is there a solvent on the planet that will get under that "ceramic carbon layer" and make it let go so I don't need to cut it away with abrasives ?

Tim L
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#11 Postby Tim L » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:23 pm

Gyro wrote:Tell me this please : is there a solvent on the planet that will get under that "ceramic carbon layer" and make it let go so I don't need to cut it away with abrasives ?

I find molly pretty much prevents just that situation, but then you need abrasives to get the molly out. I'm finding WS2 is easier to remove but I still JB it because the prosess has proven to work (it just takes less strokes)
I'm not aware of anything that will remove that ceramic buildup just in front of the chamber bar physical abrasion. Although included in that is ultrasonic cleaning. I've never done but I've seen some impressive results. A barrel length bath is only about $25k :shock:

KHGS
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#12 Postby KHGS » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:34 pm

Gyro wrote:Tell me this please : is there a solvent on the planet that will get under that "ceramic carbon layer" and make it let go so I don't need to cut it away with abrasives ?


There most certainly is................it's called "moly". That is the very reason I use it, to facilitate the removal of carbon/ceramic fouling. Copper fouling in a properly run in match barrel is not an issue.......unless there is a build up of carbon/ceramic fouling, they go together!!! In 40+ years of full time gunsmithing I have not found a solvent that will reliably remove ceramic fouling.......prevention is better than the cure which is JB paste. Agree or disagree, your choice, but it works for me.
Keith H.

scott/r
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#13 Postby scott/r » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:46 pm

Just on a side note, what do you guys use to apply jb paste? An old brush? Cloth on a jag? Cloth on an old brush?
Scott.

Tim L
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#14 Postby Tim L » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:49 am

scott/r wrote:Just on a side note, what do you guys use to apply jb paste? An old brush? Cloth on a jag? Cloth on an old brush?
Scott.

Cloth on a Parker Hale jag, wrapped to give a very tight fit is my prefered method on 308.
For "priming" the barrel with molly after the clean I cut the head off a 308 case and put that over the jag before inserting so the molly doesnt get in the chamber.
Last edited by Tim L on Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rich4
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Re: Moly - who still uses it??

#15 Postby Rich4 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:53 am

Gyro wrote:Tell me this please : is there a solvent on the planet that will get under that "ceramic carbon layer" and make it let go so I don't need to cut it away with abrasives ?

As Keith said, the only attraction to moly for me is to prevent the carbon layer from adhering to your barrel, if it’s stuck to the moly and the moly comes out so does the carbon, but the other part of the puzzle is clean on the day, before it becomes stuck


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