Drop shot wrote:wsftr wrote:I think we need a poll
How many science just pick a load a grain off max and go shoot it guys as tuning is pointless have won anything vs I tune my load and have won something.
We live in a universe where the statements "X test DOES work" and "X test DOESN'T work" can both be factually accurate.
The issue lies in the nuance of the discussion around the variables. There have been some really good talks on various podcasts with Bryan Litz, Jayden Quinlan, Todd Hodnett and Erik Cortina on the subject of Tuners and the "Satterlee" style tests where in each have had to admit that they are just recording what they are observing and that, by no means, is the conclusive end of the discussion.
Bryan Litz was recently asked what he does for load development, because people seemed to be taking his information as "nothing works, don't bother", and he said words to the effect of;
Load to max pressure, drop a grain and a half, see if it shoots, change primer, if that doesn't work, go up or down in charge weight by 10% until it does.
This is tuning his load. Which is exactly what these other tests are doing. He just calls it something different and starts at a different point. He has reiterated that he never said these things don't work, he just carried out a test and recorded the findings.
Science evolves. As the testing equipment gets better, we'll be able to better understand the variables and we'll be able to reload better and have a better understanding of all types of ballistics. People like Bryan will find these variables. People like Dingo (scientiffic name Illa Flagellare) are going to contribute nothing, and hold back the sharing of this information through tribalist mocking of anyone who wants to expand on the discussion, because despite his attitude that people believe in "snake oil", what he deems to be currently correct, can and very likely WILL become "snake oil" in a few years time as we learn more.
Also, it's fun to tease Dingo because he's so dumb, he doesn't even understand what he's arguing lol.
yip - I follow the podcasts and debate in detail - even on some of the lesser known names that present the same. Of course they choose components that work together but they don't tune in the granular sense of 1/10ths powder or small seating depth changes or tuners which is where the actual debate is - i.e. I don't see debate in the larger sense of a type of powder or bullet selection.
FTR for instance has pretty well known component combinations so unless you can't get those it might not be smart to start somewhere else.
Poor dingo
yes my post was tongue in cheek
At the end of the day who cares whether tuners work or not or 1/10th makes a difference - no one is forcing anyone to use a tuner or pick one 1/10th over another. The angst is however amusing.