To F-Class Standard and Open Shooters,
It might be interesting to get some opinions on this. Are you an aim-offer or a knob-twiddler? What are the advantages of each? Do knob-twiddlers wear out the windage mechanicals, and do aim-offers sometimes lose track of where they should be aiming off? Should we occasionally use both, depending on the conditions, or the style of shooting e.g. Bisley? And what about coached shoots - which method is best for that?
Alan
Aim Off or Adjust Windage
Moderator: Mod
I always aim off even if it means aiming off target, using the NPR2 reticle on the NF it has 5moa holdoffs it rarely comes to that but I have used the target next door for an aiming point, it's a bugger if it gets pulled while your aiming. There will be some who think I'm mad but this system works well for me and I find it works very well in fishtailing conditions.
The advantage of using this method, I can't wind the wrong way !!! and the scope does less work and I don't have to wonder if those 4 clicks I just put on actually move the point of impact.
For team shooting winding I think is the way to go, as it's simply too hard and takes to long to explain where to hold, only problem with this is scope reliability which IMO is a much more common problem than most people think and can sometimes be intermitant.
Matt P
The advantage of using this method, I can't wind the wrong way !!! and the scope does less work and I don't have to wonder if those 4 clicks I just put on actually move the point of impact.
For team shooting winding I think is the way to go, as it's simply too hard and takes to long to explain where to hold, only problem with this is scope reliability which IMO is a much more common problem than most people think and can sometimes be intermitant.
Matt P
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Cameron Mc
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Interesting subject Alan
I shot fullbore for more than 20years winding central sights. I went to F Open and leave the scope on zero 90% of the time. For my first sighter I nominate how much wind there is and aim off accordingly. In fullbore you can't aim off so there is no choice but to wind the sight, that said it can be tempting to favour one side instead of winding and that can be disasterous.
With aiming off you have to remember exactly where you aim for each shot.
I never aim off the target so if the wind is howling I will wind to within about 2 minutes from centre and be very wary of the dropoffs. For me, I need confidence in my scopes repeatability and true zero. The later can be a problem when switching barrels.
I just feel more comfortable aiming off.
Cameron
I shot fullbore for more than 20years winding central sights. I went to F Open and leave the scope on zero 90% of the time. For my first sighter I nominate how much wind there is and aim off accordingly. In fullbore you can't aim off so there is no choice but to wind the sight, that said it can be tempting to favour one side instead of winding and that can be disasterous.
With aiming off you have to remember exactly where you aim for each shot.
I never aim off the target so if the wind is howling I will wind to within about 2 minutes from centre and be very wary of the dropoffs. For me, I need confidence in my scopes repeatability and true zero. The later can be a problem when switching barrels.
I just feel more comfortable aiming off.
Cameron
Last edited by Cameron Mc on Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
I never aim off, even 1/2 a moa.
To each his own but to aim off you need to make TWO judgements.
ONE- you have to judge the wind.
TWO- you have to judge where to aim off.
An error in both and you may well get lucky or at the other end of the scale you are up the well known creek.
Why make two judgements when one will suffice?
Of course you need a scope that will track truly, and I have complete confidence in my scope ( S )
An FO target is more suited to aim off than a FB target but you still have to count the rings, providing you can still distinguish them in heavy mirage that is.
A FB target is barely suitable for aim off beyond the aiming mark but I know plenty of shooters who do it, mostly unsuccessful.
As far as wearing out the mechanicals is concerned, who cares, when and if they wear out I will have them replaced, meantime I will use the back up scope.
Like I said, to each his own, but there is something not correct about aiming out into the middle of nowhere and hoping you have made BOTH your judgements correct.
Barry
To each his own but to aim off you need to make TWO judgements.
ONE- you have to judge the wind.
TWO- you have to judge where to aim off.
An error in both and you may well get lucky or at the other end of the scale you are up the well known creek.
Why make two judgements when one will suffice?
Of course you need a scope that will track truly, and I have complete confidence in my scope ( S )
An FO target is more suited to aim off than a FB target but you still have to count the rings, providing you can still distinguish them in heavy mirage that is.
A FB target is barely suitable for aim off beyond the aiming mark but I know plenty of shooters who do it, mostly unsuccessful.
As far as wearing out the mechanicals is concerned, who cares, when and if they wear out I will have them replaced, meantime I will use the back up scope.
Like I said, to each his own, but there is something not correct about aiming out into the middle of nowhere and hoping you have made BOTH your judgements correct.
Barry
Great question Alan.
I wind my sights 95% of the time. I think this is due to the fact that our range has shifty wind that varies quite a lot in direction and strength during your string. It is not often that it remains constant enough to get more than 2 shots away on the same windage or POA.
That being said, I do find that at the shorter ranges or in fishtails, I wind on the base wind then watch mirage and hold off accordingly....which is usually never outside the 5 ring.....I'm just not comfortable holding off any further. I dont know how Matt does it!!!!
I have coached our F-Std team in interclub shoots and again I wind sights rather than communicating holdoffs. Coaching is hard enough as it is so I dont like to complicate things with holdoffs and sight cranking much for the same reasons as Barry mentioned.
I think the key is to find a system you are comfortable with, that is also repeatable on any range or position on the mound. For those of us who are new to the sport, spending more time reading wind and mirage with an experienced collegue will help to build confidence and develop that system.......and of course PRACTICE.
I wind my sights 95% of the time. I think this is due to the fact that our range has shifty wind that varies quite a lot in direction and strength during your string. It is not often that it remains constant enough to get more than 2 shots away on the same windage or POA.
That being said, I do find that at the shorter ranges or in fishtails, I wind on the base wind then watch mirage and hold off accordingly....which is usually never outside the 5 ring.....I'm just not comfortable holding off any further. I dont know how Matt does it!!!!
I have coached our F-Std team in interclub shoots and again I wind sights rather than communicating holdoffs. Coaching is hard enough as it is so I dont like to complicate things with holdoffs and sight cranking much for the same reasons as Barry mentioned.
I think the key is to find a system you are comfortable with, that is also repeatable on any range or position on the mound. For those of us who are new to the sport, spending more time reading wind and mirage with an experienced collegue will help to build confidence and develop that system.......and of course PRACTICE.
"Aim small, miss small"
Simon
Simon
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pjifl
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This refers particularly to FO but I can use exactly the same technique for FS with my dedicated scope.
Elevation is always corrected with the knob.
I primarily aim off for wind. And I always remember my aim off from centre as a figure in minutes - not from the last shot position. The one exception for aiming off for height is near the end of a shoot if the rifle seems to be falling slightly I may aim high for the last shot.
My experience is that aiming off both for wind and elevation simultaneously degrades accuracy - aim off in one dimension is more consistent.
Most seem not to aim off - and its amazing how many seem not to know exactly where their zero is. Managing a team shoot is almost impossible using aim off at the moment but should not be and in my opinion a team that worked and developed a real team shooting technique to utilize its advantages would improve significantly.
Proper team shooting would be a real culture change for most F shooters.
Communicating the aim off is impossible without understanding minutes or some such system or else resorting to knob twiddling.
If I was really seriously organizing an FO team, until shooters could recite the aim off pattern for the FO target like their 2 times tables they would never be eligible for the team.
And in this respect we should point out to everyone at every oppertunity the pattern. 1/4, 1/2, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3. Its amazing how few know it and ever so satisfying to see it click with a new shooter.
We should hang a target in the clubhouse with this marked on it.
After trying F shooting I decided good aim off needed a dedicated graticule in the scope because hardly anything suitable existed. So I built my own which is a cross with 5 dots each side - each representing exactly one minute. Anything coarser is not good enough. And it has to be simple. I did try other patterns but settled on the above as the best. The scope is always on zero and I never get confused about this. (but there are plenty of other things I get confused about)
My wind knob is so fixed it is taped. Occasinally this is taken off for fine tuneing but immediately replaced. So it cannot be moved accidently.
The first few times one uses this system you have to be careful not to aim off the wrong way, because to someone who is not used to it, they do not realize using the right hand dots is a left aim off so if anyone else uses my rifle I always tell them to FIRST place the centre roughly where they want to aim off then use the appropriate dot.
With minute dots, it is easy to judge 1/4 minute aim off but 1/8 is difficult or impossible. But by using the aim off dot in conjunction with FO target centre, 1/8 can be judged. For this reason, I believe that for the very close ranges in lighter winds best results are achieved with knob twiddling because it is more accurate when placing a dot in the 10 ring. But at longer ranges - especially in fistailing conditions (is there anything else ????) the aim off pays dividends.
In these conditions I have a fullbore friend who is a very good coach - we have both done a lot of fullbore coaching and work togeather well - who uses my ability to change and get away shots almost immediately - something impossible with knob twiddling. Especially with large changes. We have experimented. He just tells me a number.
When the new long range FO target comes into play, all this will be available to anyone who takes the trouble to learn the aim off pattern. And the white 8 helps - counting the rings out is quicker and less error prone.
Most of my shooting in NQ is in light conditions. At any major shoot I have attended, up to 900 y I have never needed more than 5 minutes of wind for a 6.5 but have used a combination of target aim off and dot aim off for some other shoots. I would rather do this than change knobs but if there was a constant very strong cross wind maybe would probably do it.
In my experience, (mainly watching others) scopes do wear from knob twiddling and become unreliable. Trouble is you dont really know when a scope is becomes unreliable - it sneaks up on one. They were never really intended for twiddling and a decent scope for F shooting in my opion has yet to be made. The knob calibrations are like a dogs breakfast and hard to read and the clicks are either too stiff or too close togeather.
After rereading this - I have waffled on a lot. To me its a fascinating topic and am interested in others ideas.
Peter Smith.
Elevation is always corrected with the knob.
I primarily aim off for wind. And I always remember my aim off from centre as a figure in minutes - not from the last shot position. The one exception for aiming off for height is near the end of a shoot if the rifle seems to be falling slightly I may aim high for the last shot.
My experience is that aiming off both for wind and elevation simultaneously degrades accuracy - aim off in one dimension is more consistent.
Most seem not to aim off - and its amazing how many seem not to know exactly where their zero is. Managing a team shoot is almost impossible using aim off at the moment but should not be and in my opinion a team that worked and developed a real team shooting technique to utilize its advantages would improve significantly.
Proper team shooting would be a real culture change for most F shooters.
Communicating the aim off is impossible without understanding minutes or some such system or else resorting to knob twiddling.
If I was really seriously organizing an FO team, until shooters could recite the aim off pattern for the FO target like their 2 times tables they would never be eligible for the team.
And in this respect we should point out to everyone at every oppertunity the pattern. 1/4, 1/2, 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3. Its amazing how few know it and ever so satisfying to see it click with a new shooter.
We should hang a target in the clubhouse with this marked on it.
After trying F shooting I decided good aim off needed a dedicated graticule in the scope because hardly anything suitable existed. So I built my own which is a cross with 5 dots each side - each representing exactly one minute. Anything coarser is not good enough. And it has to be simple. I did try other patterns but settled on the above as the best. The scope is always on zero and I never get confused about this. (but there are plenty of other things I get confused about)
My wind knob is so fixed it is taped. Occasinally this is taken off for fine tuneing but immediately replaced. So it cannot be moved accidently.
The first few times one uses this system you have to be careful not to aim off the wrong way, because to someone who is not used to it, they do not realize using the right hand dots is a left aim off so if anyone else uses my rifle I always tell them to FIRST place the centre roughly where they want to aim off then use the appropriate dot.
With minute dots, it is easy to judge 1/4 minute aim off but 1/8 is difficult or impossible. But by using the aim off dot in conjunction with FO target centre, 1/8 can be judged. For this reason, I believe that for the very close ranges in lighter winds best results are achieved with knob twiddling because it is more accurate when placing a dot in the 10 ring. But at longer ranges - especially in fistailing conditions (is there anything else ????) the aim off pays dividends.
In these conditions I have a fullbore friend who is a very good coach - we have both done a lot of fullbore coaching and work togeather well - who uses my ability to change and get away shots almost immediately - something impossible with knob twiddling. Especially with large changes. We have experimented. He just tells me a number.
When the new long range FO target comes into play, all this will be available to anyone who takes the trouble to learn the aim off pattern. And the white 8 helps - counting the rings out is quicker and less error prone.
Most of my shooting in NQ is in light conditions. At any major shoot I have attended, up to 900 y I have never needed more than 5 minutes of wind for a 6.5 but have used a combination of target aim off and dot aim off for some other shoots. I would rather do this than change knobs but if there was a constant very strong cross wind maybe would probably do it.
In my experience, (mainly watching others) scopes do wear from knob twiddling and become unreliable. Trouble is you dont really know when a scope is becomes unreliable - it sneaks up on one. They were never really intended for twiddling and a decent scope for F shooting in my opion has yet to be made. The knob calibrations are like a dogs breakfast and hard to read and the clicks are either too stiff or too close togeather.
After rereading this - I have waffled on a lot. To me its a fascinating topic and am interested in others ideas.
Peter Smith.
Alan
The windage knob only ever comes off to re-zero. As Peter said with a combo of reticle and scoring rings I can almost always get a good point of aim. It wont work for everyone and especially people that have shot FB as it can be hard to hold the cross hairs away from what your're trying to hit.
And for those that trust their scopes, no matter what brand they all fail at some stage or another.
Matt P
The windage knob only ever comes off to re-zero. As Peter said with a combo of reticle and scoring rings I can almost always get a good point of aim. It wont work for everyone and especially people that have shot FB as it can be hard to hold the cross hairs away from what your're trying to hit.
And for those that trust their scopes, no matter what brand they all fail at some stage or another.
Matt P
Last edited by Matt P on Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AlanF
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Apart from adjusting the knobs for my first 2 sighters, I always aim off for both windage and elevation. I believe that if you can master aiming off (and my own system still has a little way to go) it is better than adjusting. It allows shots to be got away quicker (conditions can change in the time it takes to adjust), and it is more precise, particularly if your scope has only 1/4MOA clicks. I record each aim-off point on a plot sheet, then adjust the next aim-off point based on (a) the result of the previous shot and (b) any changes in the wind. It does require some mental gymnastics, but the intention is to practice, practice, practice, and make it an automatic process 
. However the way my brain is travelling lately, it could take some time 
I don't ever remember having to go back to zero on the scope when caught by a big change. But I try to keep track of true windage zero for each barrel, mainly to set the first sighter, but also as security for the day when a sudden change of 10 or 12 points happens in the middle of a shoot
.
BTW starting this thread was not my idea, but a suggestion from a very accomplished knob-twiddler who is keen to see how the other half lives! Keep the ideas coming - you never stop learning in this game.
Alan
. However the way my brain is travelling lately, it could take some time
I don't ever remember having to go back to zero on the scope when caught by a big change. But I try to keep track of true windage zero for each barrel, mainly to set the first sighter, but also as security for the day when a sudden change of 10 or 12 points happens in the middle of a shoot
.
BTW starting this thread was not my idea, but a suggestion from a very accomplished knob-twiddler who is keen to see how the other half lives! Keep the ideas coming - you never stop learning in this game.
Alan
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Ken L
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Aim off for me
I once tried a combination of adjusting for the average wind and aiming off for the variations but came unstuck when there was a change from 4 right to 5 left and it took too long to recalibrate the mind to the changed conditions.
I once used the NPR 2 that has 5 moa calibrations but as soon as the MLR reticule was released I has my scope converted to the new reticule.
Now with the MLR there are gradustions at 1/2 Mill radians at 22 magnifications and that equates to 1.73 Moa per graduation. But by simply reducing the magnification to 19 power the graduations become 2 Moa. Now if you are using an 10 to 42 scope you can set the power at 38 X and get Peters 1 Moa calibration.
The other main advantage you get from aiming off is the faster adjustment with less time for the wind to change again before you fire.
If you can perfect the technique of shooting with both eyes open and mentaly switch from seeing with one eye to the other you can watch the wind with one eye and shoot with the other. Problems when the light level reaching the eye thru the scope is much brighter that reaching the other eye. With the 56 mm NF scope this can be a problem that I cured with an F Stop ring mounted inside one sunshade that I use in bright sunny days.
The size of the ring is a trade secret that you will have to work out for your self
Another interesting aspect is that the wind zero changes from a zero set at a south facing range when you shoot on a north facing range and a zero at 300 yards is up to 3/4 moa out when shooting at 1000 yards. This varied with bullet diameter and barrel twist rate. The British Admiralty developed Hamiltons Formula for their BIG guns where the drift was measured in hundred of yards at 30 miles. The principal is still the same for small calibers. Fullbore shooters wont believe it exists as it is contained with their wobble factor when shooting off the elbows and a sling
I once tried a combination of adjusting for the average wind and aiming off for the variations but came unstuck when there was a change from 4 right to 5 left and it took too long to recalibrate the mind to the changed conditions.
I once used the NPR 2 that has 5 moa calibrations but as soon as the MLR reticule was released I has my scope converted to the new reticule.
Now with the MLR there are gradustions at 1/2 Mill radians at 22 magnifications and that equates to 1.73 Moa per graduation. But by simply reducing the magnification to 19 power the graduations become 2 Moa. Now if you are using an 10 to 42 scope you can set the power at 38 X and get Peters 1 Moa calibration.
The other main advantage you get from aiming off is the faster adjustment with less time for the wind to change again before you fire.
If you can perfect the technique of shooting with both eyes open and mentaly switch from seeing with one eye to the other you can watch the wind with one eye and shoot with the other. Problems when the light level reaching the eye thru the scope is much brighter that reaching the other eye. With the 56 mm NF scope this can be a problem that I cured with an F Stop ring mounted inside one sunshade that I use in bright sunny days.
The size of the ring is a trade secret that you will have to work out for your self
Another interesting aspect is that the wind zero changes from a zero set at a south facing range when you shoot on a north facing range and a zero at 300 yards is up to 3/4 moa out when shooting at 1000 yards. This varied with bullet diameter and barrel twist rate. The British Admiralty developed Hamiltons Formula for their BIG guns where the drift was measured in hundred of yards at 30 miles. The principal is still the same for small calibers. Fullbore shooters wont believe it exists as it is contained with their wobble factor when shooting off the elbows and a sling
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AlanF
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pjifl wrote:...Communicating the aim off is impossible without understanding minutes or some such system or else resorting to knob twiddling...
Peter,
I have been coached to aim off in F-Std with the aid of "graphical" instructions. It consisted of a scale model target painted on a small piece of tin, with a small magnetic disc as the spotter. The coach simply puts the spotter on the required aim-off position and displays it to the shooter.
One unique problem with coaching scoped shooting is the coach has no definite way of knowing that the shooter is not doing his own thing - I have had this happen but only found out because the shooter admitted it! This can happen even when the coach does the knob twiddling.
Peter, with your expertise in scope construction, would it be possible to have some way of the coach seeing what the shooter sees in the scope, possibly by using a fibre-optic cable?
Alan
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pjifl
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My feelings re Alan's points.
1/ I have tried a system where the coach pointed to a spot on a small map of a target but found this very cumbersome. It is not really amenable to very quick changes. By stating numbers the shooter need never remove concentration from aim. I know this is really only useable on an FO target or when everyone has a suitable scope. I must admit that, when I have been involved with FS coaching I have resorted to knob twiddling. But I resent that approach because if the team really got their act togeather and all had suitable scopes (or all used suitable targets) the whole process could be elevated to a new level.
2/ As for knowing where the shooter aimed - it could be done but unless a picture was captured I think it would tale away a lot of the coaches attention. And it would need really keen observation to pick fine changes.
In a competition any attachments via fibre optics would need to be weighed with the rifle and that would become a can of worms. Fibre optics are not noted for fine detail - or if they are are horrendously expensive and gradually fail as fibres drop out. The images for both shooter and coach would both be much duller.
While the problem is much worse with scope shooting it is not unknown with peep sights (*) and in the end it comes down to trust and an appreciation of the team effort. Unfortunately many F shooters have never shot in teams much. One way to help with this trust may be to involve the shooter with some of the decisions. For example - a good shooter may know his rifle better than the coach and take care of elevation while the coach does all wind work. I dont think this goes against the spirit of a coached match and goes a little way to making teamwork. And it is a well deliniated sharing of responsibilities. So when the shooter loses one for height he cannot blame the coach !!!! so cannot stay aloof and cast blame so much as some F shooters are inclined to.
Old time Fullbore coaches - unless they have actually shot some F class - do not appreciate the power of fast shooting. I do not think it is possible to adequately plot shots and twiddle knobs and have a string of say 4 shots away quickly. So they force restrictions on the shooter often resented by F shooters by unnecessarily showing him down.
The ultimate would be a recorder plotting seperate from the coach. I think this is actually allowed in fullbore but is never applied quite like this.
The team effort has to work both ways. The shooter needs to use the best features of a coach and the coach needs to use the best features of a shooter with scope.
The old saying - an expert team will always beat a team of experts is always true. If there were enough scoped shooters involved who practiced team shoots togeather I think this would develop but we are all scattered so much.
(*) Some experts can aim off with peep sights. Some do it by instinct - other by deliberate canting. Get Don Brooks talking on this topic - many people may be surprised.
Peter Smith
1/ I have tried a system where the coach pointed to a spot on a small map of a target but found this very cumbersome. It is not really amenable to very quick changes. By stating numbers the shooter need never remove concentration from aim. I know this is really only useable on an FO target or when everyone has a suitable scope. I must admit that, when I have been involved with FS coaching I have resorted to knob twiddling. But I resent that approach because if the team really got their act togeather and all had suitable scopes (or all used suitable targets) the whole process could be elevated to a new level.
2/ As for knowing where the shooter aimed - it could be done but unless a picture was captured I think it would tale away a lot of the coaches attention. And it would need really keen observation to pick fine changes.
In a competition any attachments via fibre optics would need to be weighed with the rifle and that would become a can of worms. Fibre optics are not noted for fine detail - or if they are are horrendously expensive and gradually fail as fibres drop out. The images for both shooter and coach would both be much duller.
While the problem is much worse with scope shooting it is not unknown with peep sights (*) and in the end it comes down to trust and an appreciation of the team effort. Unfortunately many F shooters have never shot in teams much. One way to help with this trust may be to involve the shooter with some of the decisions. For example - a good shooter may know his rifle better than the coach and take care of elevation while the coach does all wind work. I dont think this goes against the spirit of a coached match and goes a little way to making teamwork. And it is a well deliniated sharing of responsibilities. So when the shooter loses one for height he cannot blame the coach !!!! so cannot stay aloof and cast blame so much as some F shooters are inclined to.
Old time Fullbore coaches - unless they have actually shot some F class - do not appreciate the power of fast shooting. I do not think it is possible to adequately plot shots and twiddle knobs and have a string of say 4 shots away quickly. So they force restrictions on the shooter often resented by F shooters by unnecessarily showing him down.
The ultimate would be a recorder plotting seperate from the coach. I think this is actually allowed in fullbore but is never applied quite like this.
The team effort has to work both ways. The shooter needs to use the best features of a coach and the coach needs to use the best features of a shooter with scope.
The old saying - an expert team will always beat a team of experts is always true. If there were enough scoped shooters involved who practiced team shoots togeather I think this would develop but we are all scattered so much.
(*) Some experts can aim off with peep sights. Some do it by instinct - other by deliberate canting. Get Don Brooks talking on this topic - many people may be surprised.
Peter Smith
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ned kelly
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G'Day all,
I aim off, you just have to remember exactly where you were aiming for each shot and where it lands, and adjust shooting as fast as your target crew can mark 'em.
Rip 'em down as fast as the conditions and target crew allow I say, which is why Alan F uses a joystick front rest me thinks! It has to help all the more for aiming off fast.
Only once in FO have I wound on wind but as a rule I'd rather hold off regardless of the wind strength. The FO target is a much better target than the FB one for this method but I usually can manage well enough regardless of the mirage/wind
Cheerio Ned
I aim off, you just have to remember exactly where you were aiming for each shot and where it lands, and adjust shooting as fast as your target crew can mark 'em.
Rip 'em down as fast as the conditions and target crew allow I say, which is why Alan F uses a joystick front rest me thinks! It has to help all the more for aiming off fast.
Only once in FO have I wound on wind but as a rule I'd rather hold off regardless of the wind strength. The FO target is a much better target than the FB one for this method but I usually can manage well enough regardless of the mirage/wind
Cheerio Ned
its all very interesting to me being new to the smaller bull and i can see that everyone has there own idea,there probabley is no standard method , but i guess its what you feel best with and what gets you the results is the best method ,but after winding sights for many years i find it is a hard habit for me to buck by aiming off,i like to keep track ofthe wind by winding it just seems to allow me to make a dissision quicker in fast and big changing conditions,i would hate to get lost in the middle of it all at least i can go back to zero and estimate again,as MATT said there are people like me who like to hit what you are aiming at it just makes sense to me,but i guess i have alot to learn yet.
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ned kelly
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G'Day all,
something else to think about.....by not winding windage when there is a drop off or switch you MUST know where you still air zero is and quickly use it. This IMHO allows me to aim off with confidence and allows me to measure the deflection better, so that if the wind drops by 1/2 of the strength of the previous shot, you just halve the aim off. It also allows you to quickly adjust for any vertical that conditions produce.
The very design of scopes regardless of the style of x hair, allows precision aiming off and the target rings are the "units" needed to calculate the of aim off required. Now I prefer to use my Bausch & Lomb 36x scope with 1/16moa dot on fine cross hairs for all target shooting and occaisionally I've used my 6.5-20 with fine duplex x hairs. The dot wins everytime for precision aiming off, only find some difficulty with the FB target, but not enough to worry me overly much. I've held off from one side off the black FB target to the other and holding off is the quickest way to do this in switching conditions.
So personally you will have to look long and hard to see me adjust my scopes windage turret!
Cheerio Ned
something else to think about.....by not winding windage when there is a drop off or switch you MUST know where you still air zero is and quickly use it. This IMHO allows me to aim off with confidence and allows me to measure the deflection better, so that if the wind drops by 1/2 of the strength of the previous shot, you just halve the aim off. It also allows you to quickly adjust for any vertical that conditions produce.
The very design of scopes regardless of the style of x hair, allows precision aiming off and the target rings are the "units" needed to calculate the of aim off required. Now I prefer to use my Bausch & Lomb 36x scope with 1/16moa dot on fine cross hairs for all target shooting and occaisionally I've used my 6.5-20 with fine duplex x hairs. The dot wins everytime for precision aiming off, only find some difficulty with the FB target, but not enough to worry me overly much. I've held off from one side off the black FB target to the other and holding off is the quickest way to do this in switching conditions.
So personally you will have to look long and hard to see me adjust my scopes windage turret!
Cheerio Ned
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