FCWC Canada 2017 - Individuals Bisley Style

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:54 pm

If Australia wants to be competitive in the Individuals at Connaught, there needs to be opportunities during the next 4 years for practising Bisley style shooting. I believe one of the main reasons (apart from the rain

) for the Poms dominance of the 2009 FCWC individuals was the fact that they shoot Bisley style there almost exclusively. I'm wondering if we should be asking the S & Ts to tack an F-Class Bisley style day onto their Queens series.

Alan

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:32 pm

Alan,

Even if S & T's were to run an extra range on a day, specifically shot as Bisley style that would be great practise.

A bit like in Tassie, when they shoot the 1000 yards at the end of the Lead Up. This could be shot Bisley Style.

Maybe Rosedale could consider running the December saturday sweepstakes event as a Bisley style shoot? Other associations may consider it too. However as there will be a small number (30?) of shooters going to Canada, it may need to be included in team practise days too.

After all, it is a big committment going overseas to shoot as you well know, so when you are over there you want to shoot any and everything possible :-)

Of course, we can always use club practise days with a mate. 2 or 3 shooter Bisley Style should be easy to arrange. 1 a month for the next 4 years should do the trick :idea:

DannyS · Post by **DannyS** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:54 pm

Mike, if you want to try shooting 1000 yards in trying conditions, the invitation is always open at Hamilton.

Would be good team practice. :-)

Cheers
Danny

MCLE · Post by **MCLE** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:06 pm

As l have come late in the day to this sport and am playing catch up with almost everything I'm going to ask a stupid question.what is Bisley style ????.And does it have anything to do with shooting. :oops:

Thanks Michael H

Daniel Chisholm · Post by **Daniel Chisholm** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:17 am

It will be great to see an Australian team in Ottawa in 2017. Hopefully you'll send one at least as strong as the one you sent to Raton this year, that should keep everyone on their toes!

"Bisley Style" means firing with either two or three shooters on a target.

FCWC-2017 will be done with pairs-firing. The shooters on a target will alternate between firing a shot, and recording the value of their partner's shot.

A notable feature of pairs-firing is that there is a per-shot time limit of 45s. This means that when the target appears and you've called out your partner's shot value and he has accepted it, you now must fire your shot within 45s (otherwise you are subject to a penalty).

Implications of pairs firing:
- if you want to run'n'gun, you can't do it quite as fast when pairs firing as you can when shooting single string, since you need to wait for your partner to fire his shot before it is your turn to fire your next. If your partner decides not to shoot as quickly as possible, that will prevent you from shooting at the maximum possible rate. If he also decides to shoot as quickly as possible, the two of you can fire at quite a high pace, though obviously not as fast as if you were the sole shooter on the target.
- your opportunities to "wait out" a condition you'd rather not shoot in are constrained by the 45s time limit (whereas in string firing you have a much larger "block time" in which to fit all your shots)

Post by **AlanF** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:02 am

Thanks Daniel. It would be very surprising if Australia didn't make it to Canada. F-Open will be keen to defend its title, and F/TR should have plenty of shooters vying for places by then. And there is the added bonus of seeing some of the fantastic scenery in your country.

Alan

Post by **AlanF** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:37 am

bartman007 wrote:...Of course, we can always use club practise days with a mate. 2 or 3 shooter Bisley Style should be easy to arrange...

Mike,

Knowing how difficult it can be to organise big new events, I think this is the most likely practice initiative to succeed. For example it could be done at Rosedale on ordinary club shoot days, which number about 30 per year.

You'd need to do it paired with shooters with a variety of approaches, so no unpleasant surprises at the main event.

Alan

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:42 am

Why wait until somebody offers it? Find a like minded person locally & practice at club shoots. Back a few years now, three of us used to ante up for a barrel at the start of each year & shoot a 15 shot 3 man Bisley after the club shoot, winner take all.

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:45 am

Have made a suggestion to the VRA re next years Champion of Champions which is ---

That all club champions be allowed to compete ( instead of just DRA Champs ) and that the comp be shot Bisley style.

If anybody thinks this suggestion has any merit you might like to follow it up with the VRA.

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:05 am

I think club shoots could be easy to arrange. Instead of firing 12 shots with elapsed time, and being followed by the next shooter, the 2 shooters (with agreement) could shoot Bisley style instead. Basically taking the same amount of time on the mound and there would be little to no impact to the day's program.

Daniel, it's great that you have managed to see the post and provide some concise feedback in the process.

One thing I've always wondered is, how do you keep track of the 45 seconds? Is there a time clock like in chess, where you take it in turns bashing the button? Or do you have another method?

In regard to the penalty for exceeding 45 seconds, what is it please?

I think the only thing that will be hurt by this method of shooting is our pride (initially), until we learn to shoot in this style. After all, most shots will be like taking a sighter, we may be able to learn off what our mate has just shot, however when bad conditions sweep through, we will have no choice but to take an educated guess, grit our teeth and fire :shock:

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:54 am

Mike,
SSR's cover for shooting to 45s ( shoot off's )
In the " good old days" when all shooting was to 45s the time was kept by the scorers. Nobody actually timed each shot but if a shooter was seen to be taking excessive time the RO was called and He/ She was then timed and if necessary,cautioned. If they again exceeded the 45s they lost the highest value of that shot.
Sure sharpened up your wind reading --no laying there for 4 or 5 minutes waiting -- read it, make a decision and shoot. The good old days. :lol:

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:47 am

In Australia, don't forget the markers. Where Bisley style is mandated, good markers are only too ready to warn ROs of apparent excessive delays.

The tricky issue at Bisley is that the competitors score for each other - there's no independent scorers - & so, like many rules thereabouts, you might find exceptions by connivance or acquiescence are not unusual. Nevertheless the RCO is expected to oversight the shooting on his block & desirably, bring recalcitrant into line.

By the same token, I've seen a certain amount of wriggle offered by those entrusted with rule compliance in the first instance (the scorers) in Aussie competitions, though most aren't designed to give a shooter an unreasonable advantage.

GregW · Post by **GregW** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:58 am

One thing to be aware of is the time involved in "Bisley Style" shooting. A "block time" is allocated to each detail. From memory, I think two shooters are given 25 minutes to complete. This means that the whole range is tied to 25 minutes a pair. I shot "F" class this way in Canada in 2007, (winning the Farquarson and Polar Bear Aggregates). You need to have a plot sheet and be able to read it and your mate's score card, which may be difficult if you have optics geared for long distance. TR can be very trying on elbows of you are not used to it, but "F" class doesn't have such a problem. One thing you will find in Canada is that you will be treated in a most friendly manner at all times.

Greg Warrian.

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:19 am

So for a good practise session we should do the following:

1. Have an overall timer set to the 25 minutes
2. Have another timer for 45 seconds to assist in adapting to this limit
3. Have a plot sheet for me + one for the partner
4. Have a score sheet for me + one for the partner

Then we are good to go :-)

Mike,
SSR's cover for shooting to 45s ( shoot off's )
In the " good old days" when all shooting was to 45s the time was kept by the scorers. Nobody actually timed each shot but if a shooter was seen to be taking excessive time the RO was called and He/ She was then timed and if necessary,cautioned. If they again exceeded the 45s they lost the highest value of that shot.
Sure sharpened up your wind reading --no laying there for 4 or 5 minutes waiting -- read it, make a decision and shoot. The good old days. Laughing

Barry, I do recall the shoot off time limit when doing my RO course. However I don't think it gets policed too harshly, as I'd like to think that most shooters would be excited to be in a shoot off. I remember Port Campbell a few years ago when 3 of us competed together at the last range, it was a buzz.

It certainly brings back the importance of fine tuning your sighters, in that you need to be regularly reading the strength of wind correctly.

I shot "F" class this way in Canada in 2007, (winning the Farquarson and Polar Bear Aggregates).

Greg, I think I can learn a few things from you! There is so much that we don't hear about our fellow Aussie shooters. Look forward to catching up the on the range in Tassie, even if as rival teams :-)

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:36 am

Greg,
If you shoot to a block time of 25 minutes, and I assume that is for two shooters per target, how does this affect the individual shooter? One could hog the time forcing the other to shoot quickly --or is there some check on how much time each shooter takes?