Whether to stick with the same action?

Greyhound · Post by **Greyhound** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:06 pm

Hello folks,

I'm curious as to whether shooters stick with the same action or use different actions. I have one only in Panda stolle (308 and 284 win). Most of the my fellow club members shoot Barnards and I originally sought one my self but ended up with a panda which shoots better than me. I guess my question should I stick with Panda or try other options. Is it more economical or efficient to stick with the same?

Mistit · Post by **Mistit** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:17 pm

Just my opinion
If your happy with the one gun stick with the panda
After owning every top action available I settled on a Barnard s
For me if you do change actions go the barnard though

Barossa_222 · Post by **Barossa_222** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 5:11 pm

I have pandas. Nothing wrong with them, except they won't take the pressure of a Barnard. If I was starting again it would be Borden all the way. The upside you have with a Panda already is that Borden's can be ordered with a thicker recoil lug to accept Panda barrels. Nicest actions I've ever owned/used. Timed from factory and really good machining tolerances.

Bigtravoz · Post by **Bigtravoz** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 6:15 pm

Actions don’t wear out, usually . Barrels do. Put a new barrel on and go again.

Greyhound · Post by **Greyhound** » Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:45 pm

Barossa_222 wrote:I have pandas. Nothing wrong with them, except they won't take the pressure of a Barnard. If I was starting again it would be Borden all the way. The upside you have with a Panda already is that Borden's can be ordered with a thicker recoil lug to accept Panda barrels. Nicest actions I've ever owned/used. Timed from factory and really good machining tolerances.

So Bordens are comparable pressure wise with Barnards? Interesting news about fitting a panda barrel with a Borden action. Didn't know that! Thanks

Barossa_222 · Post by **Barossa_222** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:07 am

I can't speak for how Borden v Barnard stack up pressure-wise, but both being steel actions will allow them to run hotter than the aluminum Panda. I prefer the Borden because of the bolt lift (you get more primary extraction compared to Barnard), but having said that, there are plenty of open guys running barnard actions with excellent results.

PeteFox · Post by **PeteFox** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:14 am

Whether you have a Borden, Panda or any other modern action, choosing one over the other based on how much pressure it can handle speaks volumes about reloading practice.
Pete

Barossa_222 · Post by **Barossa_222** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:33 am

PeteFox wrote:Whether you have a Borden, Panda or any other modern action, choosing one over the other based on how much pressure it can handle speaks volumes about reloading practice.
Pete

It is certainly a consideration when selecting an action. When comparing my Panda FTR rifle compared to friends Barnard FTR rifles all other things considered equal, you are able to run the same case/powder/bullet combination at higher pressure levels.

JezL · Post by **JezL** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:46 am

The other consideration is the weight saving ... my panda stolle weighs considerably less then my barnard being Alu. vs Steel ... that weight saving could be helpful to some trying to make weight Or allows you to use the extra and go longer / bigger barrel or weight in the stock etc etc.

I think its something like ~15 oz / 450gr difference. ... Thats a few inches of extra barrel length ?? ... dont quote me though as I havent weighed them personally

BD28 · Post by **BD28** » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:42 pm

Defiance for me.

Tim N · Post by **Tim N** » Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:41 pm

I have owned barnard actions which are more than satisfactory however I replaced them with Borden’s as I like shiny things

superx10 · Post by **superx10** » Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:44 pm

Hi I have both a Stolle Panda and a Barnard model s some of the good features about the Panda F class is that it comes with an integral 20 MOA rail and will take any rem 700 triggers, parts are easy to come by as there is an Australian importer so extractor claws and firing pins, springs, action wrenches,bore guides ect can be purchased easy.

The barnard S which is the smaller of the single shot actions, that is about 150 grams lighter than the model p also has rem 700 trigger hanger model p does not, this opens up a huge trigger selection.

The Barnard is made with much more finer tolerances than the stolle Panda F class, and is much more tighter in operation, but then the panda action has had about 6 barrels through it.

The borden action are shiny smooth and a a work of art but at about $ 1000 more than the Barnard's.

Greyhound · Post by **Greyhound** » Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:48 pm

Interesting info. Weight difference is important.What calibres can you use with your Barnard S model ? Can the 7 saum be used? Borden seems like the 20 year old Scotch!

PeteFox · Post by **PeteFox** » Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:00 pm

Barossa_222 wrote:
PeteFox wrote:Whether you have a Borden, Panda or any other modern action, choosing one over the other based on how much pressure it can handle speaks volumes about reloading practice.
Pete

It is certainly a consideration when selecting an action. When comparing my Panda FTR rifle compared to friends Barnard FTR rifles all other things considered equal, you are able to run the same case/powder/bullet combination at higher pressure levels.

I think you must be talking about some other shooting movement where safety is not the prime consideration and the rules are made to be bent.

We are talking F/TR here? and .308 win?, where the maximum safe SAAMI pressure is 62,000 psi. and this max pressure is mandated by the rules. See rule 1.2(d) of the SSR's - i.e. the onus is on the shooter not to exceed manufacturers maximum loads or pressure.

Either you are seriously suggesting that a Panda action is suspect with a .308Win at 62,000psi or you are advocating reloading practice above 62000 psi - the reason for my initial comment.

Contrary to my initial gut reaction, I do mind (a lot) if your rifle explodes on the mound because it reflects badly on the shooting movement and its safety record and will inevitably affect everyone's shooting through increased attention from the 'authorities'. and we'll end up with some draconian rules on reloading.

I am not wanting a return to the 'good old days' of 7.62 NATO shooting, but stuck rounds, blown primers, actions unable to be opened without losing the projectile etc were almost unheard of, because the pressure was capped at 50,000psi. and the ammunition was standardised. Same deal if we stick at 62,000 psi with modern actions.
Rant over
Pete

Greyhound · Post by **Greyhound** » Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:30 pm

JezL wrote:The other consideration is the weight saving ... my panda stolle weighs considerably less then my barnard being Alu. vs Steel ... that weight saving could be helpful to some trying to make weight Or allows you to use the extra and go longer / bigger barrel or weight in the stock etc etc.

I think its something like ~15 oz / 450gr difference. ... Thats a few inches of extra barrel length ?? ... dont quote me though as I havent weighed them personally

That's a noticeable plus. Doesn't take much to exceed 8.25 kg

Whether to stick with the same action?

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