OzFclass

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8. Left for new rules!

It has become apparent that SH is being widely adopted, which is great news. The original rules (written as a starting point) are coming under scrutiny/criticism due to lack of clarity. This thread is aimed at discussing the issues raised (and probably raising more) in order to write more specific rules that will allow SH to be adopted as a competitive discipline. This IS NOT an official NRAA initiative but it will be presented as an aid/advice on the development of the official rules.

Previous threads under SH have highlighted issues that tend to indicate that we, potentially, need to split the discipline into 3 classes. In order to minimize exclusion there are a group of rifles that, while they can shoot accurately at mid range, they can't shoot the long ranges "we" compete at. These can be described as the "traditional hunting rifle" (think Howa 1500). We then have factory built extended range rifles (think Womera, or a Howa in a Boyd's stock). And lastly we have the custom built long range rifles. This last group was not originally intended for inclusion. Should it be? How?

The challenge is to write a set of rules that can be applied by an RO that distinguishes these "classes" from one another. Initially, I want to leave the first group out. If a gun can't shoot the ranges required for competition they need to be dealt with separately. Not excluded, but managed differently.

FIRST UP (and the first hurdle for this thread)

We need to define what SH actually is, what makes a SH rifle? The current rules are broad in order to encourage participation. They need more clarity in order to continue with the original intent but also to include the more customized offerings (expand participation). At what point does it become an FTR rifle? We could easily say 308. Fine, so an FTR shooter can now drop a 6.5 barrel in and shoot SH or drop an FO rifle on a bipod and have at it! We could just put a weight limit on but again FTR is only restricted by an upper limit, 8.25kg and they are generally built with the lightest components available so a heavy barrel can go on. Make the 6.5 barrel skinny and off you go. Would there be anything wrong with that? Target rifles are limited to 7kg and some don't weigh that much. Can they shoot this discipline? Perhaps it could be left open so they can. Someone struggling with 308 recoil could go with a lower recoil caliber and shoot this discipline as well.

So, to start the thread, what attributes and equipment differentiate an SH rifle from a Target rifle and existing F class guns?

My basic template for rules would be based around the below

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Main aim for S/H is to encourage membership growth by providing and accessible, cost effective, fair and competitive class.

This would be divided into 2 sub classes.

S/H Factory.
- Rifles must be factory produced.
- Rifles must be of bolt action repeater type
- Rifle must be of 8mm or less
- Rifles with all attachments must weigh less than 7kg
- At the ROs request competitors must provide documentation that the rifle is factory produced in the form of brochure, factory website, factory advertisement. (Note this is different to semi custom rifles being available "off the shelf" from gunshops such as cleavers)
- The rifle must have an RRP of $3100 or less as of 1/7/2022 based on the average of 3 prices available. (note this is a basic figure with the intention to be adjusted by CPI or reviewed annually as per PRS)
- Rifles must be fitted with the original trigger that may be adjusted but must be safe at all times.
- Rifles may have a muzzle brake providing it was factory fitted or the barrel was factory threaded. (this pains me a bit but we need to be accepting)
- Rifle can be fitted with a foldable Harris bipod or similar with a footprint of less than 300mm. Feet can terminate in any method providing they meet local range requirements and do not damage the mound.
- Actions may be bedded to the stocks with epoxy or similar. This is the only modification permitted to the rifle. (Justification for this is several guns are coming out now with factory bedding so it's going to be difficult for anyone to determine if the bedding is factory or done by someone after. Also the price point of rifles I'm trying to incentivise likely have similar quality barrels but bedding could be hit and miss. Allowing bedding will make factory rifles more comparable to one another)
- 1 piece of smooth hard rubber up to a maximum of 16mm thick (conveyor belt or similar) may be placed between the mound and the bipod to provide a uniform surface for the bipod to sit on. This rubber may not have any spikes, rails, or any form of protrusion that would allow it to engage into the ground or for the bipod to engage in it.
- Shooters may use a rear bag for support and use any number of simple spacers to position the bag at the correct height to suit mound conditions. Simple spacers such as solid rubber, timber, steel or cork. Bags and spacers may not have spikes or any form of protrusion that would engage with the ground or bag. No mechanically adjustable rear rests or bag riders.

S/H Open
- Rifles may be factory produced or custom built
- Rifles must be of bolt action repeater type
- Rifle must be of 8mm or less
- Rifles with all attachments must weigh less than 10kg (Yep some of the open PRS rifles are getting up into this range. Not very hunting but pretty sporting)
- Rifles may be fitted with any trigger that may be adjusted but must be safe at all times.
- Rifles may have a muzzle brake (this pains me a bit but we need to be accepting)
- Rifle can be fitted with a foldable Harris bipod or similar. Bipod most not have joystick, screw or fine adjustment such as would be used in FTR. Maximum bipod with of 350mm. Feet can terminate in any method providing they meet local range requirements and do not damage the mound.
- 1 piece of smooth hard rubber up to a maximum of 16mm thick (conveyor belt or similar) may be placed between the mound and the bipod to provide a uniform surface for the bipod to sit on. This rubber may not have any spikes, rails, or any form of protrusion that would allow it to engage into the ground or for the bipod to engage in it.
- Shooters may use a rear bag for support and use any number of simple spacers to position the bag at the correct height to suit mound conditions. Simple spacers such as solid rubber, timber, steel or cork. Bags and spacers may not have spikes or any form of protrusion that would engage with the ground or bag. No mechanically adjustable rear rests or bag riders.

Great conversation. I'm one of the group of shooters that have been bought into the sport by this class.
BATattack 's proposed rules sound pretty good and I particularly like the price point concept.
Do we need two divisions though? what about just going with the rules you mention for standard and leave it at that (though I think 7 kg is a little heavy). if someone wants to get more into heavier more accurate rifles go into F/class, that's what I am doing. And this is what the class was designed for to bring shooters into the sport.
Also by having the proposed open division the winner of the class will probably be some one with all the gear and not a hunting rifle.
Our club membership is predoiminately shooters with hunting rifles nothing tricked up, if we make it so they always lose to someone with all the gear will we keep them?

The Current SSRs are exactly what is needed to attract new shooters.

23.2 Introduction: This section is designed to allow standard shop bought sporting
type rifles to be used on NRAA rifle ranges.
23.3 Any rifle bought as a standard factory-made practical walk around
sporting/hunting/varmint rifle

A price point is a bad idea and would effect those with nicer, not more accurate rifles, ie Sako rifles are over $3k but not more accurate than other hunting rifles.

Nice scopes are expensive, not more accurate!

6.5kgs is more than enough!

Non tracking rear bags is true to category.

Considerations for rule changes:
1. No Aftermarket Barrels
2. Limit scope magnification to 24/25

If the Category is to be split Standard and Modified,

Then it should be that, a modified SH rifle:
1. Any aftermarket barrel up to 27/28 inches,
2. Any Scope Power,
3. Any attachments, but still Harris 'STYLE' Bipod
4. Non tracking rear bag.
5. 7.5kg weight limit,
6. An action that would be accepted for SH Standard before any modifications, ie. Lithgow, Tikka, Howa, Sako, etc
7. Any Caliber that meets range rules.

Cheers
Steve

I think it would be very unwieldy to try and manage a production rifle category based on all the criteria you seem to require, and the majority of beginners are probably happy to shoot at the club level anyways. Added to that the prospect of getting TWO divisions of SH into clubs' OPMs is pretty remote, don't you think ?

I would just have one SH where the majority of rules align with PRS. That way people can shoot the same rifle. Of course I would like SH std and SH open so creedmores etc are not competing directly with 308s but I agree that may not be practical for some time. So to recap I think :
1. 26in (max) varmint weight barrel repeater
2. 7kg all up weight limit in 308 or 223 for sh/std (7kg is a suggestion could be more)
3. any calibre for sh/open up to .30, if you want to allow it at all. maybe a 3250fps limit like PRS.
308 & 223 for sh/std ( Or you could lump them together for now... just SH)
(for single fire the difference is minimal)
4. for shooting style, an adjustable bipod , harris style, (folding, no joystick)
5. rear bag with no ears
6. No muzzle brakes

cheers Andrew.

Tim,

The NRAA currently has a draft set of updated SH rules which split the class into 3 very fair classes which I'm a fan of.

Factory Class which is exactly as it left the factory, Modified Class for those wanting aftermarket chassis and a couple other small changes, and Open Class for those that want to build a ball tearer with a magazine and shoot it off a folding bipod.

Have a chat to Marty as he might be able to share with you.

Cheers

Rogue22 wrote:Tim,

The NRAA currently has a draft set of updated SH rules which split the class into 3 very fair classes which I'm a fan of.

Factory Class which is exactly as it left the factory, Modified Class for those wanting aftermarket chassis and a couple other small changes, and Open Class for those that want to build a ball tearer with a magazine and shoot it off a folding bipod.

Have a chat to Marty as he might be able to share with you.

Cheers

sounds good. I guess i fit the middle at the moment with my 308 but i would not mind getting an open calibre rig as well, i guess that can be the ball tearer

Honestly there’s some out there stuff in this thread. Honestly if you need a class that is up to 10 kgs you need to be competing in fopen. I can see a precision varmint or the like class up to a 7.5 kg limit being the step between the current sporter hunter NON COMPETITIVE class and stepping up to a full competition class f class rifle. I personally have 2&1/2 rifles that fit this genre, actually they fit hunter sporter but everyone cracks the sads cause they shoot with the fopen rifles.

What I propose is that hunter sporter be left alone and a second class be introduced for the likes of what I regularly see, with sporting rifles of up to 7.5 kilograms built on factory actions shot on f class not tr targets.

Honestly any heavier than that and you are falling into the match or target rifle genre and should be shooting in the already appropriate class.

Leave hunter sporter alone and create a properly competitive class between it and f class. 7.5 kg max, no custom actions, only factory actions, any safe trigger, no monopods, hunting type bipod at the front end a bag at the rear. Muzzle brake depending upon the range rules. So that means no barnards, Borden etc actions only mass produced actions such as lithgow,howa,zastava, Remington etc.
This would enable the use of up to a 26” Heavy varmint profile barrel (which despite what the rules say will not make weight in a hunter sporter, trust me I been there done that.)

Limit barrel length to 26”, stock, unlimited provided it makes weight. Bedding, compound bedding only, no aluminium v blocks etc.

There is a call for this class. The up to 10 kg stuff, if you can afford to build a rifle that weight you should be looking at f open.

What we must also remember is that NRAA ranges are set up for fixed position shooting. There’s much inference to PRS shooting. PRS shooting is a completely different thing which involves a course with different firing stations. This doesn’t match how most ranges are set up and not will it mate with what most shooters are wanting to do. Most people stepping up from playing with their hunter sporter class rifles that they have played with to get them knowledge of range dope, are looking at stepping up from shooting mid 40’s at a given range to shooting mid to high 50’s on an open target with a better rifle,OR, looking at something that’s a bit of a challenge in comparison to the f open or standard rifles that they shoot in competition.

Bigtravoz wrote:What I propose is that hunter sporter be left alone and a second class be introduced for the likes of what I regularly see, with sporting rifles of up to 7.5 kilograms built on factory actions shot on f class not tr targets.

Now that is a novel idea. If we can define a the point at which "standard" and "open " splits, the class could be run as a single class. Standard shooting on TR targets and Open shooting on FClass using a version of the Multi Discipline Scoring index to place shooters on a single scoring league.
A big sticking point (probably the biggest) is the requirement to introduce more than 1 new discipline/class into a prize shoot. This issue has been voiced by both clubs and S&Ts so can't simply be ignored.
As a compromise, purely as a means of offering a competative class, but still splitting the field.
Thoughts?

Tim L wrote:

Bigtravoz wrote:What I propose is that hunter sporter be left alone and a second class be introduced for the likes of what I regularly see, with sporting rifles of up to 7.5 kilograms built on factory actions shot on f class not tr targets.

Now that is a novel idea. If we can define a the point at which "standard" and "open " splits, the class could be run as a single class. Standard shooting on TR targets and Open shooting on FClass using a version of the Multi Discipline Scoring index to place shooters on a single scoring league.
A big sticking point (probably the biggest) is the requirement to introduce more than 1 new discipline/class into a prize shoot. This issue has been voiced by both clubs and S&Ts so can't simply be ignored.
As a compromise, purely as a means of offering a competative class, but still splitting the field.
Thoughts?

I think we need to get away from the “standard/open thing” and have a clearly separate set of rules for a class as I suggested, call it precision sporter or precision varmint or something of the like. It should still occlude “match or Target” type rifles as these would fall into classes already defined and are not in the spirit of the class. I have shot in hunter sporter class against such rifles at prize meets, and realistically if a protest was lodged they should have been disqualified.

I think that there needs to be clear definition of what comprises a “match,or target” rifle in the rules, and the spirit of the class needs to be that it is an intermediary step up class from hunter sporter on the way to f class, and it remain a class for personal development, and enjoyment.

I personally shoot in multiple classes and actually shoot my HS rifle in f open at club level because there’s no intermediary class, and it shoots too well to play with v bulls and shoot against the true hunter sporter class shooters. A next step up would give a lot of those who are shooting hunter sporter something to strive towards by doing some simple upgrades to their existing rifles such as a better trigger system, a new stock, a better barrel etc without having to bite the bullet and buy into the f class scenario where much bigger dollars are required to be invested to be competitive. It would also be a less expensive class for f class shooters to be involved with, where they can hone their skills without wasting their good barrels that they want for competition. This is the exact reason I built my HS class rifle, and I can tell you that it’s much more of a challenge to shoot a HS class rifle off a hunting bipod well than it is to shoot an f class rifle off a rest, and it’s a bucket load of fun too, especially when you beat the f open guys. Lol

So 2 classes together but split by scoring index.

Can you please detail the rules and specifications of rifles for each class and how they can be fair, cost effective and inclusive of green shooters, shooters with some intermediate skill and basic modified equipment and shooters with advanced equipment and or skill? Please also consider how we could attract or share target shooters from disciplines outside of the NRAA while allowing to shoot their existing equipment.

Tim L wrote:...Standard shooting on TR targets and Open shooting on FClass using a version of the Multi Discipline Scoring index to place shooters on a single scoring league...

As the author of MCSI and the newer ADSI I would not recommend either for any OPM competition. My systems are good for local mixed class team shoots but whenever raw scores are available for individual shooting competition they should be used I think.

Tim L wrote:...A big sticking point (probably the biggest) is the requirement to introduce more than 1 new discipline/class into a prize shoot...

It might be a big concern in some quarters but not a valid one in my opinion. In all likelihood 2 well-targeted S/H classes will quickly grow and attract enough entries to offset the extra badges and medals. S/H is showing better initial growth than F-Open or F/TR did in my experience.

BATattack wrote:So 2 classes together but split by scoring index.

Can you please detail the rules and specifications of rifles for each class and how they can be fair, cost effective and inclusive of green shooters, shooters with some intermediate skill and basic modified equipment and shooters with advanced equipment and or skill? Please also consider how we could attract or share target shooters from disciplines outside of the NRAA while allowing to shoot their existing equipment.

Patience Bat, lots of ideas and opinions coming in. Both here and from other sources.

Yup. I wasn't at the very beginning like you Alan but I can remember f class either not being offered at OPMs or if it was then there wouldn't be any prizes or badges available. We went because we wanted to shoot and knew that the only way those badges and prizes were ever going to happen was to pay our money and support clubs OPMs in the hope that they would see the numbers and support us. It worked out in the end.