We've also tried attracting hunters, and its not easy. In my experience, nearly all see visits to our range as either getting their rifles sighted, or improving their long range skills, but only in order to improve their success at hunting, which is their main priority and interest. Good on them I say - that's their passion as mine is target shooting.
For those few hunters and others who are sensible enough to want to advance further with long range accuracy, then F/TR is more likely than FO or F Std to attract younger shooters on a tight budget. They can be competitive with a converted Omark or rebarrelled hunting rifle, but importantly they can start with an outlay of around $1000 and build it up.
Ken Larkin's championing of the field discipline was because of the significant support it had in his region. I guess it's not surprising that the Northern Rivers is the epicenter of Field & Rimfire shooting in NSW as well. It seems that they have large numbers of informal/semi formal shooters & rifle ranges that don't extend back all that far - a perfect recipe for less exacting equipment.
I now think the thread is going in the right direction.
The main issue is the longer ranges, not some subjective accuracy thing. Typical 223 hunting rifle twists can be a bit slow as an example, although they are now commonly available in 7 or 8 twist which makes it better for the 80 grainers. 308s are usually a bit faster twist than we use anyway.
Just out of interest, I had a go with a Tikka T3 in 223R cal yesterday just to see what sort of potential something like that has. Using the club ammo not tuned for the rifle, I shot a main group approaching 0.5MOA elevation with one outlier I called low and right. This is at 700M. If this is achievable with gear like that, no reason to think it cannot be replicated for others. Given some practice and load tuning, the Tikka would shoot well enough to be annoying to the top guys.
I've been sitting on the sidelines watching eagerly this discussion and thought it time to pipe in. Although essentially an open shooter - I also have an off the shelf Tikka 308 hunting rifle which I was shooting in Fstandard occasionally. We have 4 TIKKAs in our small club so feel this is a good example. All are reasonably competitive at club level (all under 0.5moa vertical at least at shorter ranges- some much under and I can honestly say I haven't seen one that hasn't shot under half a minute if loaded correctly). Mine is set up to shoot FTR and have just tried some Lapua 155's today (shot in open class locally). It shot outstandingly well at 500m. It might struggle to get to 1000 but at short ranges it is right up there. I cannot shoot the Sierras as they are out of the shell before getting to the lands. The recent batch of HBC's doesn't work well in this rifle either. I can't wait for FTR 'cause I and the other guys in our club LOVE having a hunting rifle that can shoot like that and LOVE honing our skills at the range. It would also be nice to develop a load and practice with a good hunting bullet (like a Berger VLD). There is also some remingtons and savages and Howas etc. There is a "HUGE" pool of potential members in this class. I would say half our club (by number not necessarily attendance) is made up of hunters with factory 308's. They will all welcome FTR and I agree with the train of thought that FTR will appeal to a lot of new shooters. This forum group probably generally represents the serious target shooters in numbers, few of the "hunter" class would contribute but I would guess their vote would be "bring on FTR in any form". I don't see a subclass of open (as all FTR rules fit within open) being a bad thing at all. A lot basically do this anyway so to be recognised and compete at that level would be good. Otherwise they are directly up against full class open rifles which can be daunting at the start.
This topic was flying along - hope I didn't kill it somehow???
In answering the original question - anyone interested - YES - lots up here.
FTR has more appeal to the hunter as they can use any of their projectiles (Not just the 3 Target ones). And it also has appeal to a handful that want to compete internationally.
DaveMc wrote:This topic was flying along - hope I didn't kill it somehow???
In answering the original question - anyone interested - YES - lots up here.
FTR has more appeal to the hunter as they can use any of their projectiles (Not just the 3 Target ones). And it also has appeal to a handful that want to compete internationally.
Dave,
If we can get a F/TR team at Raton, that will do wonders for its success here I believe. I know there's a good number who would never consider shooting internationally, but I reckon there's quite a few who would jump at the chance of representing Australia once the ice is broken.
I agree Alan, once the hurdle of the first teams is over, it will only be a matter of time before the option of shooting for Australia becomes something to aspire for.
Linda - it was like walking into a room with half a dozen people laughing and talking - then you make a comment and they all walk out on you.
Only joking but I beleive this is a great topic and more input would be appreciated by all.
I have recently done a little bit of trialling different bullets for my 308 rifle and ask those of you in Fstandard to have a go. The Lapua 155's and berger 155.5s are outstanding (and Laps are CHEAP) The Lapuas look like a HBC with a slightly "hybridish" look at shoulder of ogive to them. They shoot outstandingly well in my rifle. The HBC's shot well originally too but these things just hum in my factory Tikka. They also hold the world record 600yd benchrest group of 0.38 inch (not bad hey). The BC and weight uniformity is second to none (Bergers - shot by poms and SA also must be ourtstanding). If I was to choose a <1000yd bullet for FTR then one of these would be my choice - I can only hope Fstandard would allow them in too??
Whilst I understand the need to "standardise" projectiles for an even playing surface I think great enjoyment comes from having rifles that shoot oustandingly well. I have never enjoyed shooting more than I have lately with a couple of rifles shooting well.
I have a box of Lapua 155's here that I am about to start playing with as I have a break from official competitions now until January. Bergers in 155 or 185 are proving a pain for me to get hold of. I might speak to Dave Kerr and email the guy from Berger and see if we can set up a supply line here in the West.
Linda, are you going to be using F standard compliant 155's or going with something a bit better, shooting in F open until F/TR makes a move? Whats your bullet of choice or is this a decision yet to be made?
I will be trialing Lapua Scenars, Berger 155.5's, and even our faithful HBC's with some bullet and meplat trimming.
I am open to anything, and will use whatever works the best for my rifle. But also keeping in mind that I will need to be able to purchase the same from overseas.
So much choice in F/TR!
I will probably give the Berger 185's a run as well, just to satisfy my curiosity.
TOM wrote:After thought.... Just drive a 155 at 3100 fps, same BC as a 185 at 2700 or something, that could save you a bit of coin too.
There are a fair number of F-T/R types doing just exactly this with some little success!
While 185's are becoming more popular, 80%+ of the large National and International level matches are being won with 155's of some flavor. The most popular one at the moment is the Berger 155.5 "Fullbore".
I have been watching the debate on this subject with much interest. I certainly hope that the NRAA officials, who will soon be voting on the immediate future of F-T/R in Australia, will give it the chance to either grow or die depending on its acceptance or rejection by the shooting community.
F-T/R is growing by leaps and bounds all over the world and it would be a sad thing, indeed, for our Australian cousins to miss out on the experience of a world championship because F-T/R never got a chance to get up and running with NRAA sanctioning.
I will continue to watch this with keen interest. Best of luck to the shooters of Australia.
enough to want to advance further with long range accuracy, then F/TR is more likely than FO or F Std to attract younger shooters on a tight budget. They can be competitive with a converted Omark or rebarrelled hunting rifle, but importantly they can start with an outlay of around $1000 and build it up.
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