NSWRA 2023 King's Sporter Hunter rules

[macguru]

Are you in NSW ? maybe you should enter the NSW King's in January ....

[AlanF]

Hopefully the new and I do mean new sub committee can come up with an agreement going forward that lifts the sport and possibly listen to a few that have invested into the division and support the Association (Just my opinion and 5c)

Well the idea is to start talking now (or perhaps after the Xmas break) with your own STA council and politely put your case for what you want, because sometime in the new year the sub-committee will happen and will ask for submissions from the STAs.

[Sako85]

AlanF where does one find their STA representative? There was word of new rules but no one I know has seen them- who’s had the input? Who gets the right to change these? Why isn’t there a vote system for a class representative? Lots of questions …..

[Matt P]

AlanF where does one find their STA representative? There was word of new rules but no one I know has seen them- who’s had the input? Who gets the right to change these? Why isn’t there a vote system for a class representative? Lots of questions …..

You are represented by your State Ass, for example in NSW that is the NSWRA they (NSWRA) are Members (upper case) of the NRAA we (the individual) are not members(lower case) of the NRAA.
There are generally no "class representatives". It will be up to the incoming Board (and more specifically the Board Member responsible for rules) to decide how the new set of rules will be put together. The make up of the new Board will be voted on by the Members (State Ass) in January 2023.
Suggest you get in touch with your State Association with your thoughts but would do it in considered tone as this topic has been done to death with very strong opinions from all camps.
One thing I would add is at Kings/OPM level at the moment there is only room for one class (in my opinion there is already to many grades/classes without adding SH), that's not to say that SH shouldn't be included but maybe some others need to be dropped.
So can I ask everybody on either side of the rules argument. Can either side survive without the other ???
My comments regarding classes/grades are in relation to Kings/OPM's, at club level I have no issue and strongly recommend doing what suits your club. My club runs two SH classes and Club Championships one is SH Standard (223 and 308) and the SH Open (any other caliber).
Regards
Matt Paroz

[AlanF]

AlanF where does one find their STA representative? There was word of new rules but no one I know has seen them- who’s had the input? Who gets the right to change these? Why isn’t there a vote system for a class representative? Lots of questions …..

Sorry, I now see it was your comment I quoted. Matt has already explained it correctly, but I'll put it my own words also:

STA is an acronym for State and Territory Association. The STAs comprise nine Rifle Associations (WA, SA, NT, NQld, Qld, NSW, ACT, Vic and Tas). To compete in any of the NRAA shooting disciplines (Target Rifle, the F-Classes, Sporting/Hunting and a few other others) you need to be a member of a Rifle Club affiliated to one of these STAs. In turn, the STAs are members of the NRAA. So when you pay your Club's annual sub, some of it goes to your STA, and some to the NRAA. Amongst other things, the NRAA controls the Standard Shooting Rules (SSRs), which deal with competition and safety requirements for all its types of shooting. The NRAA is continually making changes to rules, usually based on discussions with its own 9 members, the STAs. In the case of the rumoured S/H Discipline changes, we have just learnt that NRAA Rules Director will be forming a sub-committee to seek input from the STAs for S/H Discipline rule changes.

So if you have an opinion about the changes, and want it to be heard, then I'd advise firstly bouncing it off a few shooters at the range, discussing it in places like this forum, then if you feel strongly enough about it, make contact with one of the elected members of your STA and discuss it with them. If you don't know how to contact a member, ask your club secretary for contact details.

Just another thing about the SSRs. The safety rules in the SSRs are non-negotiable and must be complied with at all NRAA affiliated clubs. However competition rules, including allowed equipment specs, are often varied at Club level competitions to suit local circumstances. Occasionally its done at Queens/Kings level as well as is currently happening with S/H discipline. This is not ideal for anything that involves interstate/interclub competition or comparisons, such as teams events, interstate/interclub individual shooters, national rankings etc. so the NRAA is understandibly trying to get all STAs to agree on identical equipment rules for S/H Discipline.

If you have more questions, that's what this forum is for.

[Barry Davies]

Off topic but --
If we the individuals are not "members" of the NRAA ,. how come we pay a membership fee to them?

[GrahamW]

Off topic but --
If we the individuals are not "members" of the NRAA ,. how come we pay a membership fee to them?

Barry, do you pay membership fees to your club?

If so, they in turn pay a % for membership to their/your STA, who then pay a % for membership to the NRAA which makes you a member of your club, your STA and the NRAA.

If you aren't a member of a club affiliated with the NRAA (i.e. SSAA) then you aren't paying them anything and not a member of the NRAA but then * in general * you're also not entitled to shoot in any NRAA sanctioned prize meetings (i.e. OPMs, Kings, etc.).
(* there are exceptions *).

8-)

[PeteFox]

A definition of "Member" of the NRAA is defined in the NRAA Constitution funnily enough, as follows

Screenshot_20221224_195350_Xodo Docs.jpg

The NRAA is a Company that's why its full title is NRAA Limited, it's not a club so the membership is not open to all.

Constitution at: >> https://nraa.com.au/constitution-nov-2013/

Pete

[AlanF]

I think Barry's question is a bit tongue in cheek. But it is an unusual situation where the NRAA keeps a register of all shooters and charges each STA based on how many of those shooters the STA has as members. On the other hand, if the NRAA didn't exist we'd need the STAs to do the important things the NRAA does, such as run national competitions and handle relations with ICFRA and other international shooting bodies. I don't think anyone can reasonably suggest that would work better if left to the STAs.

[jsa54]

With the new rules drafted and supplied to the states bodies for debate, why are we not shooting to those for genuine open feed back rather than Hornsby rifle club rules.
This is a national class not a Hornsby Club shoot.

I just want to put the "Hornsby Rifle Club Shoot" rules and similar threads into perspective...this was our Hornsby Range inter-club Xmas shoot. I decided on the two SH categories and respective scoring differences because of three main aspects:
- Many of our active, paid up range members were being excluded because they accepted (some not so willingly) they didn't fit into the (poorly worded) specifications of SH class because their rifles were not a catalogued factory item. Much of our new membership at Hornsby falls into this category.
- Secondly, in a previous low level competition at our range, one of our members was disqualified post shoot as a result of a protest that hinged on the very ambiguous wording within the current SSRs
- And lastly, we as humans are competitive...so if there is a desire for a competition, then let's facilitate it in some manner in the hope it leads to a better and more inclusive outcome long term

....So I needed something that would be inclusive of everyone but put greater performance pressure on those with the obviously more accurate equipment...after all...we were competing for a Xmas pudding versus a cake!

Something very worrying is being lost in this discussion about the rationale of introducing SH and the pedanticness(?) of the associated rules . I have dragged my sorry butt out of the Sydney grime as much as possible this year to attend country town/DRA OPMs. Without question, at nearly every country range the words from the locals, not us entitled, inward looking city dwellers, was how SH has saved their Clubs. Many of the farmers, roo, deer, fox, rabbit and pig shooters and those in country towns with an old rifle in the wardrobe have responded to the invitation to come and try their hand at target shooting. And in nearly every case the competitive bug has bitten...so many of them are now investing in gear and moving to a "proper" discipline to improve their scores. They have become active and contributing members! State membership grows as a result...isn't that a change from recent trends! One club, with five members, was about to close the door and throw away the keys...now they have nearly 40 members. The story is repeated across NSW and I suspect the other States.

So rather than get heated up about the minutia of the NRAA SH rules, which were and still are worded to be a non-competitive discipline, let's embrace it as an entry point to facilitate growth in our declining membership. I don't see the same numbers of new TR or F Class shooters beating a path to our doors. Be it a SH rifle or a "PSR" rifle, their membership $$ still look the same to me. It would be so easy for those encouraging numbers of those folks trying out their luck with us to feel overwhelmed with our fiefdom protection rules and simply walk across the road to our sport's competitors...I think one of them now has more than 220,000 members...hmmm....might be a message there for us.

John Alp
Chair (until someone else puts up their hand)
North Shore DRA

[macguru]

John, thank you for striking a blow against pedantry

I would encourage anyone interested who will be in NSW in January to come along and participate in the King's prize. You will quickly realise that at windy Malabar it does not matter if you have a tikka or an AI, its not the determining factor......

Andrew