New Sporter/Hunter Class...is your club promoting it?

[shift]

Our club Hornsby RSL RC in Sydney has already adopted this discipline and it is working successfully on our range at Hornsby. This discipline has been a great success at attracting new members who have bought or own rifles that are not necessarily for hunting but more to be used in Precision Service Rifle (Rules from Chapter 16 SSR) or PRS matches ("Sporter"?). We run the discipline in conjunction with Fclass and TR at the same time. What we do to mitigate the muzzle brake blast is set up baffles on the mound which protects the other lanes from getting showered in dirt.

Use of muzzle brakes was a must for this discipline as most of the rifles used in these matches come with muzzle brakes and are not generally removed. However, as a soft start to the discipline we have only allowed single shot loading for now but seeing the official rules are now allowing magazine use, we may discuss how to logistically make this work. Magazine use is definitely important as magazines are used in the PSR/PRS matches and as most ranges do not currently allow magazine use, most shooters are learning the mechanics (or failures) of their magazine during a match.
We are currently only using the prone bipod supported position but may work in some other positions like prone unsupported with sling or prone supported off a backpack like every alternate week as we further develop the discipline. Unfortunately, due to range template, we are limited to only prone positions at this stage but other ranges might not have this issue.

We also run two classes under this discipline, NATO and OPEN. NATO class mainly being restricted to 308/223 caliber and OPEN class being any caliber under 8mm like FOpen. We are not enforcing the rifle weight or barrel length rules as we found these unnecessary and limiting to the discipline. If someone wants to turn up and shoot a rifle with 32" 1.25 truck axle barrel then so be it. They will have fun holding that up when we do prone unsupported with a sling

We ran a version of this discipline in the NSDRA Open prize shoot last year. However, the problem with the OPM format is that it is only open to NRAA members and currently we are only allowed to shoot one discipline in OPMs. So shooters who were only SSAA couldn't participate and NRAA shooters mostly shot their normal Fclass/TR disciplines instead. It was a step in the right direction however if they want to include this discipline in OPMs, there will need to be some discussion on how to make it more accessible.

[Bigtravoz]

I have been pushing to make this happen since before it was even proposed. Time to push a little harder. One of the main things that needs to happen with this class is to set a realistic brief of what is and isn’t allowed and keep it budget friendly. No aftermarket gear (limited to barrel replacement and trigger with similar specs to factory) and a reasonable limit on optics ($1500, maximum of 32x magnification.) to me this is the whole point of this class, to make it readily afforded and to keep a fair and even playing field.

Maybe have a total value of rifle set at say $3500 including optics and no built rifles only what can be bought readily off the shelf.

[Tim L]

I have been pushing to make this happen since before it was even proposed. Time to push a little harder. One of the main things that needs to happen with this class is to set a realistic brief of what is and isn’t allowed and keep it budget friendly. No aftermarket gear (limited to barrel replacement and trigger with similar specs to factory) and a reasonable limit on optics ($1500, maximum of 32x magnification.) to me this is the whole point of this class, to make it readily afforded and to keep a fair and even playing field.

Maybe have a total value of rifle set at say $3500 including optics and no built rifles only what can be bought readily off the shelf.

I understand your reasoning, but suspect it is based on retaining a competitive baseline?
The idea of this class is not to develop another competitive discipline but to be widly inclusive. The aim is to get people on our ranges (thats a financial benifit straight off the bat) and hopefully have them bitten with the long range bug so they adopt one of the existing disciplines. (Thats the growth of competitors at opms and qpms.)
For every restriction that is imposed, you exclude someone.
I would tend to agree that a scope mag limit is justified because high powered scopes aren't generally condusive to the hunting environment. That said we aren't mimicing the hunting environment so why impose the restriction.
How are you going to tell one shooter they can't drop their remmington into a Whisky 3 chassis, when the other guy is shooting a Womera that comes in a W3 chassis?

[Bigtravoz]

I have been pushing to make this happen since before it was even proposed. Time to push a little harder. One of the main things that needs to happen with this class is to set a realistic brief of what is and isn’t allowed and keep it budget friendly. No aftermarket gear (limited to barrel replacement and trigger with similar specs to factory) and a reasonable limit on optics ($1500, maximum of 32x magnification.) to me this is the whole point of this class, to make it readily afforded and to keep a fair and even playing field.

Maybe have a total value of rifle set at say $3500 including optics and no built rifles only what can be bought readily off the shelf.

I understand your reasoning, but suspect it is based on retaining a competitive baseline?
The idea of this class is not to develop another competitive discipline but to be widly inclusive. The aim is to get people on our ranges (thats a financial benifit straight off the bat) and hopefully have them bitten with the long range bug so they adopt one of the existing disciplines. (Thats the growth of competitors at opms and qpms.)
For every restriction that is imposed, you exclude someone.
I would tend to agree that a scope mag limit is justified because high powered scopes aren't generally condusive to the hunting environment. That said we aren't mimicing the hunting environment so why impose the restriction.
How are you going to tell one shooter they can't drop their remmington into a Whisky 3 chassis, when the other guy is shooting a Womera that comes in a W3 chassis?

What I am saying is that there needs to be some kind of limitation, otherwise it once again becomes moot point where the guy who has $10000 to spend on a rifle is flogging the guys who can only justify a $2000 rig and the point of the new class has been defeated. No body said we are mimicking the hunting environment but hunter class basically sets the tone of what it’s about, factory hunting rifles. As you said it’s to try to increase the membership and it’s meant to be an affordable place to start. Realistically if people can’t turn up with their howa or Remington or Ruger American and shoot against a similar class of rifle and shooter with a chance at being competitive then they won’t bother.

[sungazer]

Personally I put all of the competition and the rules about the hunter class in the area of "its just a guideline" I look at this class and set of rules as a way to justify or legally allow this type of shooting (Non specific target rifles) to take place on our ranges. For every old fart (not being age st) that says we cant do it that way because of ... Well now you can get out the SSRs and say No Actually we can.

[tom1]

Just get them in the gate for a start . Most of them would probably be not interested in competitions. That's why they aren't members already .
This endless arguing about rules and restrictions of this proposed class is self defeating.
Brad Probert.

[Tim L]

I have been pushing to make this happen since before it was even proposed. Time to push a little harder. One of the main things that needs to happen with this class is to set a realistic brief of what is and isn’t allowed and keep it budget friendly. No aftermarket gear (limited to barrel replacement and trigger with similar specs to factory) and a reasonable limit on optics ($1500, maximum of 32x magnification.) to me this is the whole point of this class, to make it readily afforded and to keep a fair and even playing field.

Maybe have a total value of rifle set at say $3500 including optics and no built rifles only what can be bought readily off the shelf.

I understand your reasoning, but suspect it is based on retaining a competitive baseline?
The idea of this class is not to develop another competitive discipline but to be widly inclusive. The aim is to get people on our ranges (thats a financial benifit straight off the bat) and hopefully have them bitten with the long range bug so they adopt one of the existing disciplines. (Thats the growth of competitors at opms and qpms.)
For every restriction that is imposed, you exclude someone.
I would tend to agree that a scope mag limit is justified because high powered scopes aren't generally condusive to the hunting environment. That said we aren't mimicing the hunting environment so why impose the restriction.
How are you going to tell one shooter they can't drop their remmington into a Whisky 3 chassis, when the other guy is shooting a Womera that comes in a W3 chassis?

What I am saying is that there needs to be some kind of limitation, otherwise it once again becomes moot point where the guy who has $10000 to spend on a rifle is flogging the guys who can only justify a $2000 rig and the point of the new class has been defeated. No body said we are mimicking the hunting environment but hunter class basically sets the tone of what it’s about, factory hunting rifles. As you said it’s to try to increase the membership and it’s meant to be an affordable place to start. Realistically if people can’t turn up with their howa or Remington or Ruger American and shoot against a similar class of rifle and shooter with a chance at being competitive then they won’t bother.

"guy who has $10000 to spend on a rifle is flogging the guys who can only justify a $2000 rig"
Like I say, it's not meant to be a competative class.

[bad_primer]

“where the guy who has $10000 to spend on a rifle is flogging the guys who can only justify a $2000”

You can still beat the bloke with all the gear and no idea.

As has been said, let’s just get people on the ranges and enjoying the facilities and clubs.

[Savagery]

I only started shooting 12 months ago and wanted to shoot multiple disiplines being fclass/long range and PSR. And being New to the sport I only had a budget of $4000 for everything, gun/scope/safe etc.
So made sense to buy a hybrid rifle and shoot off a bipod in FTR, now 6 months in I'm learning the limitations of a factory rifle and ammo, and have now just started to look into reloading my ammo and will definitely be looking into a custom FTR rifle in the next few months.

Fclass and reloading can be a bit off putting to new shooters especially if they have a tight budget and I think hunter/Sporter class is a great idea and will definitely get more people to the ranges/clubs and hopefully transition them into fclass or TR classes like myself.

[Tim L]

I only started shooting 12 months ago and wanted to shoot multiple disiplines being fclass/long range and PSR. And being New to the sport I only had a budget of $4000 for everything, gun/scope/safe etc.
So made sense to buy a hybrid rifle and shoot off a bipod in FTR, now 6 months in I'm learning the limitations of a factory rifle and ammo, and have now just started to look into reloading my ammo and will definitely be looking into a custom FTR rifle in the next few months.

Fclass and reloading can be a bit off putting to new shooters especially if they have a tight budget and I think hunter/Sporter class is a great idea and will definitely get more people to the ranges/clubs and hopefully transition them into fclass or TR classes like myself.

Glad to hear your coming on board,,, especially as it's with with FTR.

[bad_primer]

I only started shooting 12 months ago and wanted to shoot multiple disiplines being fclass/long range and PSR. And being New to the sport I only had a budget of $4000 for everything, gun/scope/safe etc.
So made sense to buy a hybrid rifle and shoot off a bipod in FTR, now 6 months in I'm learning the limitations of a factory rifle and ammo, and have now just started to look into reloading my ammo and will definitely be looking into a custom FTR rifle in the next few months.

Fclass and reloading can be a bit off putting to new shooters especially if they have a tight budget and I think hunter/Sporter class is a great idea and will definitely get more people to the ranges/clubs and hopefully transition them into fclass or TR classes like myself.

Welcome aboard! That’s exactly the situation we want to encourage; people coming in to the sport with an option that is affordable and attainable. The discipline will still instil a degree of competitive tension amongst competitors and can be introduced into OPMs at other events.

[mick l]

G'day all

I've been sitting back and watching how this class could elvolve, and I worried to say the least.

It's sad to see that the point of such a class has been overlooked by those putting rules down on paper>............... already we are in the same situation as every other class the NRAA run.

A race for those with deep pockets and fat wallets with rifles allowed to be changed from their "factory" status, eg new barrels , bedding jobs etc.

This class should be limited to "FACTORY" "Off the SHELF "rifles and factory ammo OR a new class or new rules brought in asap to set up a "FACTORY ONLY "class to stop the runaway spending that is occurring with the way rules are ATM.

To this end we are keen at Warracknabeal Rifle Club to run a one day picnic shoot to promote a "factory only class"

Cheers

[Tim L]

G'day all

I've been sitting back and watching how this class could elvolve, and I worried to say the least.

It's sad to see that the point of such a class has been overlooked by those putting rules down on paper>............... already we are in the same situation as every other class the NRAA run.

A race for those with deep pockets and fat wallets with rifles allowed to be changed from their "factory" status, eg new barrels , bedding jobs etc.

This class should be limited to "FACTORY" "Off the SHELF "rifles and factory ammo OR a new class or new rules brought in asap to set up a "FACTORY ONLY "class to stop the runaway spending that is occurring with the way rules are ATM.

To this end we are keen at Warracknabeal Rifle Club to run a one day picnic shoot to promote a "factory only class"

Cheers

https://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/new- ... -15-399-00

Hmmm a factory TRG M10 308 off the shelf is $16,900, and that's before the scope goes on. Thats more than both my FTR guns with NF comps on.

Or the more budget conscious Sako long range at $5k off tge shelf. Still more than a custom Fclass.

Just 2 examples showing that it's not quite as simply as saying "factory only" to prevent the price war.

What this class does is it allows mag fed, muzzlle braked hunting rifles on the mound. Now they are in SSRs they are covered under the NRAA range use policy.

[mick l]

G'day all

I've been sitting back and watching how this class could elvolve, and I worried to say the least.

It's sad to see that the point of such a class has been overlooked by those putting rules down on paper>............... already we are in the same situation as every other class the NRAA run.

A race for those with deep pockets and fat wallets with rifles allowed to be changed from their "factory" status, eg new barrels , bedding jobs etc.

This class should be limited to "FACTORY" "Off the SHELF "rifles and factory ammo OR a new class or new rules brought in asap to set up a "FACTORY ONLY "class to stop the runaway spending that is occurring with the way rules are ATM.

To this end we are keen at Warracknabeal Rifle Club to run a one day picnic shoot to promote a "factory only class"

Cheers

https://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/new- ... -15-399-00

Hmmm a factory TRG M10 308 off the shelf is $16,900, and that's before the scope goes on. Thats more than both my FTR guns with NF comps on.

Or the more budget conscious Sako long range at $5k off tge shelf. Still more than a custom Fclass.

Just 2 examples showing that it's not quite as simply as saying "factory only" to prevent the price war.

What this class does is it allows mag fed, muzzlle braked hunting rifles on the mound. Now they are in SSRs they are covered under the NRAA range use policy.

Tim ,

I take your point, but are both not factory mass produced rifles or out of the makers custom shop?feed them factory ammo and things level out somewhat.

So IS the next step is to put a price limit on rifles and scopes, As per some of the PRS matches.
Rifle and scope combernations up to a certain price?

[bad_primer]

quote="mick l"]

G'day all

I've been sitting back and watching how this class could elvolve, and I worried to say the least.

It's sad to see that the point of such a class has been overlooked by those putting rules down on paper>............... already we are in the same situation as every other class the NRAA run.

A race for those with deep pockets and fat wallets with rifles allowed to be changed from their "factory" status, eg new barrels , bedding jobs etc.

This class should be limited to "FACTORY" "Off the SHELF "rifles and factory ammo OR a new class or new rules brought in asap to set up a "FACTORY ONLY "class to stop the runaway spending that is occurring with the way rules are ATM.

To this end we are keen at Warracknabeal Rifle Club to run a one day picnic shoot to promote a "factory only class"

Cheers

https://www.adelaidegunshop.com.au/new- ... -15-399-00

Hmmm a factory TRG M10 308 off the shelf is $16,900, and that's before the scope goes on. Thats more than both my FTR guns with NF comps on.

Or the more budget conscious Sako long range at $5k off tge shelf. Still more than a custom Fclass.

Just 2 examples showing that it's not quite as simply as saying "factory only" to prevent the price war.

What this class does is it allows mag fed, muzzlle braked hunting rifles on the mound. Now they are in SSRs they are covered under the NRAA range use policy.

Tim ,

I take your point, but are both not factory mass produced rifles or out of the makers custom shop?feed them factory ammo and things level out somewhat.

So IS the next step is to put a price limit on rifles and scopes, As per some of the PRS matches.
Rifle and scope combernations up to a certain price?[/quote]

Mick,

The class was never really meant to impose price cap or requirements for factory only ammo. That said, factory ammo is frigging expensive and only premium examples of factory ammo is worth anything over the ranges that NRAA ranges go to. So that would be prohibitive in its own right. A key constraint of this class is the weight limit, a 6.5kg limit forces a real configuration trade-offs in terms of how weight budget is allocated; much like a cost cap without the difficulty of enforcement. Looking at weights of scopes, stocks barrels etc.

The next change that will hopefully draw people to keep coming is that scoring is as per TR. the frustration of dancing around the 6 ring for new shooters can be immense, setting the 5 ring and V ring as the top scoring areas will again provide a considerable reduction in the barrier to competitive scores and bringing people in on a simpler learning curve. This could be gradual pathway into the existing disciplines, as has been suggested.