OzFclass

Very well put Bruce
Cheers
RB

Hello all.

Raven, has S.A. applied a value of "10" to the Super V? If this is so, it is a scoring ring, not a count-out ring.

Bruce, had I not read "Targets and Scoring" by Peter Smith, it is likely that I would accept your argument.

It is unfortunate that Peter's article is no longer on this site.

His theory, which is bassed on some (for me) complex maths, is that a 58.7 demostrates better accuracy than a 60.1.

I will try to locate the article.

Regards,
John T.
27-08-10.

john,
he can produce lots of maths, but statistically it in probable that 58.7 will have a greatwer group size than 60.1.
it all depends on your definition of accuracy.
the main crux of the argument is should centres be rewarded, or should outers be punished.
the super v as a tie breaker does both, but only gives the reward when scores are equal, or when a possible of 60 occurs, therefore prioritising punishment.
to answer for raven, no1 dra is scoring fullbore, std & open out of 100.10.
iethe super v is a tie breaker.
this is working well for clubs, where a common handicap system is being used for all 3 disciplines, allowing competition in that area between us all.
bruce moulds.

Hi John
If you look vback on old post under targets and scoring you will realise we have been down this path as well.

We FO shooters empathise with you on the full value scenario but after allot of discussion and thought we feel the count out system works best at this stage.

I can email you a paper put together on this subject and the focus is on inclusion and furthering the no. of competitors in FO

Good maths does not create or retain FO ppl Peter Smith article was probably valid at the time but the goal posts were moved and so we need to move with them to survive.
I don’t know what goes on in your part of the world but before formulating a balanced opinion one needs to look to the horizon.
If I can find the post I will put the link up.

Cheers
RB

I actually think it doesn't matter too much whether we go with 6.1 or 7 or 10.1 etc. But they will effect to some extent what sort of equipment you need. I actually had three 6.5mm barrels at Brisbane, and by the end of the first day of the Queens decided which one to use for the longs. It was an older barrel that groups slightly over half MOA, but rarely has a flier. Another newer barrel, with which I got 60.8 at 300yds, was discarded in favour of the older one, because even though most shots would be well inside half MOA, I haven't found the right recipe to prevent fliers in the new one. So that is part of the reason why my Super V count in the Queens was low.

F-Class Open is in a way being torn between Bench-rest and Full-bore, which clearly have different philosophies about accuracy. BR concentrates mostly on group size with score being secondary. Full-bore has become focussed on avoiding shots a long way from the middle. I suppose because we in F-Open shoot on full-bore ranges alongside TR, then its logical that we have a similar way of assessing accuracy.

I agree with Peter Smith's article except for one important thing - accuracy can be defined in different ways. For example in BR you can win without ever hitting anywhere near the middle of the target! I think the Full-bore philosphy on accuracy probably came from the military. If you can hit a man nearly anywhere on his body, its going to put him out of action. Miss altogether, and it is militarily much less advantage.

I also think that F-Open does risk becoming known for high accuracy at the shorts, and easy-beats at the longs if we adopt tiny targets to encourage super-accurate gear. There's a compromise there somewhere - I guess it'll take a few years to get the recipe right.

Alan

I do agree Alan
It’s got to be about wind reading
Coaching into 1moa is a lot kinder as FC are now participating in team shooting at all levels club and National

I also realise with full value centre I can catch up some where along the comp.
With a count out you just can’t get it wrong it will make me a better wind reader and shooter.
RB

alan,
if you think about it you went for the most accurate barrel.
the older barrel is actually more accurate, because it has no group enlarging flyers. (at least with those loads.)
this is where we have to reappraise accuracy.
to me accuracy should not be defined as 1 lucky blinder, but by what the agg is.
you're right about how the score doesn't matter as long as it includes a countout ring.
but try to get fclass guys to see what is to be gained by going to 50.10.
bruce moulds.