FTR Jealousy!!

Lynn Otto · Post by **Lynn Otto** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:09 pm

AlanF wrote:
TOM wrote:I see, so in order to play this game we now need credentials, how ridiculous!
At least the Aussie team members cant be shown up by a normal citizen, now that could get a tad embarrassing.

Not sure where you're coming from Tom. Are you supporting the inclusion of F/TR or not? The Australian F/TR Team will be practicing at Belmont prior to the Queens. It makes sense for them to be allowed to shoot in the Queens. Your comments suggest you have large chip on your shoulder regarding the Australian Team.

Alan

I read it differently Alan. It shouldn't matter if you support the inclusion of F/TR or not, the point is if you are going to have F/TR at the event then it should be open to all F/TR shooters. How else are you going to build the class if interested shooters aren't allowed to shoot it. The reality is that those in the Australian team are not necessarily the best shooters, simply those who could afford to go to Raton. Perhaps they could have benefited from some non team competition. As it stands now, the arrangement is looking very elitist. Of course we don't have all the details, will they be shooting for some award, badge, medallion etc or is this a display shoot only, like having V8's doing laps at a Formula One event. Are they just shooting to wear out their barrels or is there an exclusive carrot just for the chosen.

PS I'm very proud of our team going to the US and can see the need for practice but can also see this from the other perspective.

Post by **AlanF** » Fri May 03, 2013 5:58 pm

Lynn,

If you think it looks elitist then good for you. Perhaps you should let the NRAA Know that you disapprove of the F/TR team participating in the Queens. Maybe they'll change their minds and open it up to "normal citizens"
and you and Tom can go to Brisbane and compete!

Alan

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:13 pm

Lynn did'nt say she disapproved of the Raton F/TR team competing at Brisbane, she said it should be open to ALL F/TR shooters -- and so it should be.
Would be a good opportunity to get F/TR off the ground.

Southcape · Post by **Southcape** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:24 pm

Alan, none of these posts are anti F/TR.

They are merely, why can't we all shoot F/TR if that's what we so desire.

I agree, the AU team needs competition, the more competition the better.

This would be the NRAA's way of supporting the AUS Team. The team is grateful for their support, if we were not able to shoot within our disciplines, then the whole team would be competing in F Open.

bruce moulds · Post by **bruce moulds** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:34 pm

looking on the bright side, is this such a bad thing?
it is cartainly promoting the discipline, albeit not how some would expect.
it has got the subject being talked about.
ultimately the base of ftr must be clubs, so that is the place to get it going.
at the other end is the international teams, and it is up to all cub members who want it to get started and then fill in the gap.
if enough clubs are doing it, the nraa will take it on board.
they did exactly that with fstd, because that discipline built itself a base..
keep safe,
bruce.

Lynn Otto · Post by **Lynn Otto** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:44 pm

Alan I'm sorry that you failed to see the intent of my post or maybe I simply didn't put it clearly enough but it was meant as Barry and Linda have said.
To clarify:
1. F/TR and it's growth and by default the future of the Australian team would be better served if any F/TR competition was open to all interested shooters.
2. The Autralian team would benefit from the competition. We all know that we improve best by having the bar raised.

GregW · Post by **GregW** » Fri May 03, 2013 7:48 pm

I have received an invitation to shoot FTR in Brisbane as a listed member of the Raton FTR team. However, I am also intending to shoot open over there, and will not shoot in either FTR or FO teams unless something goes wrong, as I'm a coach. I know that there are quite a lot of FS shooters who use FTR compliant gear, and I would dearly love to have them with us if they wish. I'll ask the question.

Greg Warrian.

TOM · Post by **TOM** » Fri May 03, 2013 8:36 pm

AlanF, I have no chip on my shoulder Mate, as is already suggested, if they are going to run F/TR at this event why not open it up to everyone, not an invitation only affair. That indeed does suggest only the elite are catered for. As you have stated many times, your an avid suppoter of F/TR and it's growth here in Australia, do you support such a move to have the event run the way it is? or would you prefer to see it opened up to anyone who has an interest in competing?

Post by **AlanF** » Fri May 03, 2013 8:39 pm

Lynn Otto wrote:...The reality is that those in the Australian team are not necessarily the best shooters, simply those who could afford to go to Raton....PS I'm very proud of our team going to the US...

Make up your mind Lynn :roll:

TOM · Post by **TOM** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:07 pm

It's only natural that a self funded team will not be the most talented and I mean zero disrespect with that comment, it's not unlike our current rankings. The more you attend, the more points you can possibly obtain, better shooters than those in the top 10 fail to get a mention, simply because they dont, or cant attend for whatever reason. It's basically surperfluous and falsifies abilities to an extent.

The aussie team members are most likely very competent, if the team was fully funded, im sure there would be some different names on that list.
Take that as you like but I assure you no disrespect is meant.

Lynn Otto · Post by **Lynn Otto** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:22 pm

There's no conflict in those statements Alan, I am proud as an Australian that we are able to send a team. But, at the same time it is a reality that the people who nominated for the team were those who had the finances and time to to go to the event. Even if it was fully funded some would have time constraints. There is no slur there, it is likely the same in many sporting areas. The comment was made to support the idea that the team could benefit from any and all competition.

BTW Alan, I'd love to go to Brisbane to compete but it sure as hell wouldn't be in F/TR,

I'll leave that to those who have an interest in that class. Sadly my finances and time don't extend far enough to travel to lots of interstate shoots.

jasmay · Post by **jasmay** » Sat May 04, 2013 2:54 am

Personally I would welcome the competition, I have already made official comment that it should be open to all, unfortunately it is a baby step situation, and this is a good baby step.

Who knows, entry forms are not released yet, perhaps the decision to open it will come.

Not saying anyone here is, but instead of moaning on here about it, moan to the NRAA.

As for the dollars vs. self funded best team comment, well, it does not add up, with the people who were willing to attend trials and put their time into to FTR, Australia is fielding the best team they can. Unless your willing to stand up and be counted we will never know how good you maybe.

There are other ways to fund the trip than your own pocket, and most companies are supportive of WORLD level sportsmen when it comes to time off.

Weather you say you mean no disrespect, it cant be taken without knowing that the idea was brought about in your mind, obviously there is some conflict in there.

RAVEN · Post by **RAVEN** » Sat May 04, 2013 11:37 pm

Just a heads up on what it takes to be in the Aust team
its not about how well you can shoot it's how committed you are to being included in the team how much you your partner family are willing to sacrifice to make it happen. FULL STOP

We have a great team and anyone who feels that they would have been a worthy participant would have tried out but they didn't so simple really
no rocket science in that.

I'm not sure why the NRAA have done it this way maybe to start debate well that's working isn't it!
Well done NRAA =D>

RB

Lynn Otto · Post by **Lynn Otto** » Sun May 05, 2013 9:57 am

RAVEN wrote:Just a heads up on what it takes to be in the Aust team
its not about how well you can shoot it's how committed you are to being included in the team how much you your partner family are willing to sacrifice to make it happen. FULL STOP
RB

100% agreed Richard and that commitment and sacrifice are well and truly appreciated. This topic though is about the inclusion or not of F/TR shooters at a national event, something all those pro F/TR members should be concerned with if they want the class to develop in this country. Personally, I am ambivalent to the class, neither being anti nor pro to it's development, but if I had made the commitment and financial sacrifice to be a part of the future of this class I would at this point be seriously 'annoyed', (insert bad word of your choice).

IanP · Post by **IanP** » Sun May 05, 2013 9:59 am

jasmay wrote:Personally I would welcome the competition, I have already made official comment that it should be open to all, unfortunately it is a baby step situation, and this is a good baby step.

Who knows, entry forms are not released yet, perhaps the decision to open it will come.

Not saying anyone here is, but instead of moaning on here about it, moan to the NRAA.

As for the dollars vs. self funded best team comment, well, it does not add up, with the people who were willing to attend trials and put their time into to FTR, Australia is fielding the best team they can. Unless your willing to stand up and be counted we will never know how good you maybe.

There are other ways to fund the trip than your own pocket, and most companies are supportive of WORLD level sportsmen when it comes to time off.

Weather you say you mean no disrespect, it cant be taken without knowing that the idea was brought about in your mind, obviously there is some conflict in there.

Well said Jason!!!!!!! I agree completely.

One of the difficulties we encounter as a sport and particularly as F-Class competitors, with more TR members than F-Class members, is representation on the NRAA committees. Until we have an equal number of representatives based on our percentage representation in our sport, (if you like) we have a difficult task ahead of us to make positive steps forward like including F T/R.

We need people to put themselves forward for selection into NRAA positions and make it known so we all can support their election. In the meantime the state associations and individual members can make it known to the existing NRAA committee that we want F T/R included in SSRs now and not at some distant date well into the future.

No need to squabble amongst ourselves over this issue as its a no-brainer, of-course if a F T/R comp is available then it should be available for all F T/R shooters. We the shooters want it but we need to send a unified message out to the existing NRAA committee.

F-Standard shooters in no way should feel threatened by the inclusion of F T/R as there is plenty of support for both calibre restriced classes in Australia. The problem is if I want to compete in a F T/R event at present in SA there is only one available and thats the Queens. I dont even know if that will be held again this year or if it was a one event wonder just held for 2012?

The only other avenue open for F T/R shooters is to compete in F-Open events which I have also done. When you shoot a 308W off a bipod in F-Open events you suddenly realise why the Aussie FO team are taking 7mm's with them for the World Championships along with their heavy front rests.

Whats my point?

My point is simply F-Class is growing and F T/R is just another branch of the F-Class tree that requires some nurturing at the moment by our F-Class community. It needs a united community effort to succeed so lets get behind it with our support. At the club level we need to start thinking about the best way to introduce this discipline with the minimum disruption to the shooting calendar and club handicap system. If F T/R is to succeed it has to start with the club associations first.

Ian