What is the VRA doing?

[AlanF]

...To save serious money you need to remove administrative duplication from the entire structure. To do this is difficult as everyone guards their patch...

Which is exactly what the VRA and NRAA are doing. In a way you can't blame them I suppose. It seems to be the way the world operates. In Australia we have Federal, State and Local Governments all guilty of duplicating services, cost shifting and blaming each other . But seriously, what Saum2 was alluding to above, if done well, would get us much closer to the SSAA model which is in a much healthier state.

[PeteFox]

I think this whole proposal is much bigger than just the VRA.

A schism like this will affect all S&T Associations by reducing the total membership of the NRAA and dividing us into ever smaller groups who's voice will become a collection of muted squeaks that are of no consequence.

Pushing the NRAA into a corner and then complaining about their reaction. WTF.

It's these type of arguments that are just as likely to turn people off and push them to the SSAA.

To put the fees increase into perspective, adult renewing memberships went from $75.00 to $87.50. so an increase of $12.50, or ten Bergers, or 2 cups of coffee, a schooner, 4 Lapua cases or 4.5 rounds of factory ammo.

Pete

[Potshot2023]

Perhaps NRAA could read the room and show some leadership by offering tiered membership for club only shooters, who happen to be the vast majority of our members.
The NRAA’s core business originally was to provide services to Members, such as SSRs, ammunition , insurance and national/international competition.
That’s partially fallen away and been replaced by copious production of PC policies being pushed down onto S&Ts.
It’s probably time to get back to looking at members’ concerns rather than taking a confrontational approach.

[jasmay]

Did the VRA consult with and offer a fee structure proposal that is more amenable to their members for the NRAA & other S&T’s to review consider?

Did the VRA consult with their own members and take a vote on the action?

How did the situation come to where it is?

[PeteFox]

My reading of the NRAA Constitution is that whilst a S&T Association (STA) is a member of the NRAA it is bound by the its Constitution and is obligated to pay the relevant annual fee to the NRAA for each of its members, not some of them. The part dealing with membership is Sect 7.4 and is quoted below:

Note the original fee of $45 is now $87.50.

There are a few ways out of this, some are:
1. An STA could leave the NRAA entirely and be removed from competition status. No qualified RO's. No entry to any other comps anywhere out of state, and no competitors from other states visiting - leading to an exodus of members to other STA's.

2. An STA could form a new parallel entity to avoid the NRAA sub for part of its current membership. These wouldn't be STA members but members of something else. A division of an STA into parts is a recipe for a takeover or a shit-fight or both. It would mean a total duplication of structures.
A division into two or more entities would lead to dual insurers on a range (NRAA insurer and the new entity's insurer). This would be a very bad outcome, as a demarcation dispute between insurers would inevitably arise leaving claimants in limbo.

3. There would inevitably be a legal shit fight over the use of rules.

4. A parallel RO structure would need to be implemented, because the NRAA owns its rules and structures. The NRAA is the body issuing the qualification. Supervision of non-NRAA rules by a NRAA RO means no insurance cover for the RO. Use of NRAA rules for non members is a breach of copyright and also means no insurance cover . Pity the RO who has 2 sets of rules that may be in conflict and then has an incident. A lawyers paradise. So the number of RO's would have to double. Good luck with that.

5. Failure to pay the fee means you eventually get chucked out of the NRAA. May as well swallow the blue pill and go back to option 1. above and save all the angst.

===================
7.4 Membership Fees and Subscriptions
(a) The entrance fee and annual subscription payable by a Member of the
Company shall be such as the Company in general meeting shall from time to
time prescribe, provided that until the Company shall otherwise resolve there
shall be no entrance fee and the annual subscription for a Member shall be a
sum equal to $45.00 (or such sum as may be determined by the Company)
multiplied by the number of ordinary members of that Member registered at
the commencement of the Company’s financial year.
====================

[jasmay]

Pete,

A key issue here is range approvals, over 95% of ranges we use in Australia have caveats of shooting under the NRAA SSR’s…. Removing oneself from this relationship would come with losing range approvals and a scramble tk find other means.

I wonder how many would simply never receive new accreditation under state WLB’s…

An anti firearms lobby’s wet dream.

[saum2]

The way I see it in Basic terms, the VRA isn't going to back down. If the NRAA offer Vic the option of their trial "club only" and NRAA membership I can see the other S&T's wanting to follow to reduce costs to their members.
The result, the NRAA only might receive a third of expected income and this would be detrimental to our shooting as the NRAA could not survive in this scenario. Just throwing a "what if" out there.

[PeteFox]

The way I see it in Basic terms, the VRA isn't gong to back down. If the NRAA offer Vic the option of their trial "club only" and NRAA membership I can see the other S&T's wanting to follow to reduce costs to their members.
The result, the NRAA only might receive a third of expected income and this would be detrimental to our shooting as the NRAA could not survive in this scenario. Just throwing a "what if" out there.

Geoff
in my reading of the NRAA Constitution, the NRAA has no ability to offer a 'club only' option to the STA's. It can't break its own Constitution. It also can't play favourites by allowing one STA to have a separate set of rules.

Given that the NRAA's members are the STA's and not individual STA members, the NRAA has only 9 members i.e. 6 states, 2 territories and FNQ.
The calculation of the NRAA member annual subscription is defined by its Constitution and is essentially:

NRAA member fee = $87.50 X the number of members in an STA. (with variations for juniors etc.)

If an STA only pays for some of its members, then its sub has not been fully paid, and therefore it is in default.
It wouldn't go too well at my local golf club if I rocked up and said I only want to pay 25% of my fees but I still want to play in the club championship and get the members discount at the pro-shop. I think I'd be rightly told where to get off.

I see in social media there are all sorts of opinions that the NRAA discriminates against STA members by disallowing participation in NRAA teams for example if their parent STA doesn't pay for all its members.
Not so IMO.
Hypothetically (because July 1 isn't here yet):
Those STA members are part of an organisation who has not fully paid their sub. Therefore they and their STA have no standing. The fault is not the NRAA's because they are following the rules they have.

Let's hope cool heads prevail.
Pete

[saum2]

Pete, I agree I was playing devils advocate. There isn't any wriggle room. I'm I guess an outsider as I live in a border city and frequent 2 states for competition/shooting so it effects me personally if both parties don't agree on a middle ground.
I'm not content to just shoot at club level just yet.
But i have a back up plan in another state.

[PeteFox]

Geoff
I have fielded enquiries from out of State
But joining an STA as your primary membership from outside the state of your legal domicile is against the NRAA membership policy, if this is what you are referring to.
Pete

[Martin]

I don't know what the fee structure is in Vic, but in NSW full membership is $238 ($150 NSWRA + $88 NRAA) plus whatever your club puts on top of that.

For the $150 the NSWRA takes you get a plastic card. They run a shop which is no cheaper than the normal commercial suppliers and organise State Championships once a year that cost another $350 to participate in. The NRAA for their $88 provide insurance and the competition and safety rules.
Comparatively, the NRAA might be the better deal.

[AlanF]

...The calculation of the NRAA member annual subscription is defined by its Constitution ...

If this is the main obstacle to solving the fee inequity issue, I'm wondering if it is becoming a big enough problem to warrant a change to this section of the NRAA's constitution. And this I'm assuming can be done with the support of the 9 STA members? I can't see any of the Members being able to justify not supporting the principle of a fairer fee structure. It would then be a matter of getting them to agree on a formula.

[PeteFox]

So here in Tasmania our fees are for full membership are:
TRA. - $95 full membership, and around half that for an associate member for club only shooters
Plus NRAA $ 87.50
= $182.50
Plus club fee which ranges from $5 to $ 50
We don't run a shop front which is why our projectiles and powder are the cheapest in the country.
Pete

[Potshot2023]

he last time a situation like this occurred involving NSWRA and WARA, cool heads prevailed. There were no sanctions on 'regular' members, and the club only shooters slipped out from under the NRAA for the period of the dispute. Due to calm and wise leadership, no bridges were burned, and once differences were ironed out, both NSW and WA returned to the NRAA fold without lasting damage to those Associations or NRAA. Cool heads and wise governance is what is needed now, not blanket threats that inflame, rather than resolve the issue.

[saum2]

So here in Tasmania our fees are for full membership are:
TRA. - $95 full membership, and around half that for an associate member for club only shooters
Plus NRAA $ 87.50
= $182.50
Plus club fee which ranges from $5 to $ 50
We don't run a shop front which is why our projectiles and powder are the cheapest in the country.
Pete

I think last year fees in Vic were $240 for full membership.Plus any club fees. So, comparable to NSW but Tassie is the cheapest, why? So Tassie have club only shooters for half the fee.... interesting. Am reading your post correctly Pete.