Pointing - Opinions,please

[Tim L]

I have just started the process of finding out. Shooting FTR, 200 hybrids, srp, mollied.
I managed to get the Hoover gear so have the option to trim meplats. What I'll be doing is working up the load on 2 new barrels. I've already sorted to bearing surface length. I feel this a necessary step, I ended up with 3 batches seperated by 1thou each way (probably nothing in that but they're batched anyway), more importantly I found 7 projectiles that were markedly different. If there is anything in bearing surface length, these would be the ones you don't want to shoot mid string, so they're in the foulers box.
I've trimmed and pointed one batch, just pointed another and the last batch are unpointed.
All the trimming does, is standardise the oal and I've already noticed that although the bullet lengths are the same, the resulting meplat is not. Jacket thickness does vary so when pointed some close right up and some don't. I went to the next level and got a tapered reamer and thinned out the meplat wall from the inside, by hand. (Pain in the arse job, but does mean all the meplats close to virtually no hole at all. There will need to be a notable benefit from that batch for me to repeat that exercise!)
I'll work the load up on unpointed and will then start shooting the pointed projectiles in seperate groups.
I'm not really expecting any big differences but over time do hope to see any benefits that may be available.
The problem we have with any results is that this is simply one aspect of my prep work. I'll be shooting a lot more, and looking for any way to improve so it's going to be hard to tell where any improvement actually came from. Lets just say it's going to be a holistic outcome with me deciding what works best rather than strict data. That said, I'll have MV Target V and elevation records to see if there is anything there.

[John Weigel]

re Pete:
"It's an Accuracy One bullet comparator, link. >> https://bullettipping.com/products/bull ... omparator/
There is a link on the page to a xxxxx John review

There is a problem, Hoover won't send it to Australia or anything else for that matter.
I got Reloading International to order one in and purchased from them. Can't remember the cost, but it didn't work out cheap.
Pete"

Yes, it is a pain to get tools and gauges from John Hoover/Accuracy One, but if you can crack it, his bullet sorting tool is awesome, as is his primer seating gauge and bullet seating depth gauge. Ditto with bullet pointing die and meplat trimmer. I use the bullet measuring gauge to sort bullets into approx 6-8 sizes before pointing. The idea is to adjust pointing die by each incremental length classification. Admittedly, slight deformations in bullet tips can affect measurements, but still... To further minimise possibility of deforming ogive and unintentionally messing with critical bullet-to-lands distance in the pointing process, I only point to the stage where opening of the hollow point is nearly closed, which proves to be highly repeatable with incremental adjustments of tipping die to conform with varying bullet lengths. How much this helps with accuracy is uncertain, and I haven't properly tested it to find out. What I have tested is downrange speed and speed consistency (ES). I'm satisfied that both are marginally improved - the latter by 20-30fps at 700m and beyond.

My philosophy is that I want to be absolutely certain that wayward shots are 100% (well, 90% anyway...) due to my miscalculating wind conditions, not due to anything else - be it rifle/ammo tune or my own shooting form. A good example is that as I posted quite some time back, he who doesn't weight-sort primers will suffer inexplicable issues every 100 shots or so. Sadly, it's that wind-thing that's proving a lot harder than the other two factors, and progress is slow!

[6.5x55ai]

I've got John Hoover's Tipping die and a small selection of Tipping Punches. I bought direct from him some years ago.
I need additional Tipping Punches and was very disappointed to find he no longer exports.
The guy (Kurt) who makes all his products also will not sell around Hoover, which is fair enough.
There is a reseller here in NZ but the wait time and prices are excruciating.

Re effectiveness of the process - mmmm. I no longer shoot long range and that was where I percieved an advantage but as pointed out, one bad wind call and any tipping gain was well lost for the whole string.

Also the whole process is quite tedious once meplats are trimmed, and bullets sorted and then tipped. I will say Bergers have better meplats to deal with and sort into fewer lots per box. The process is better done in bulk rather than a few at a time but doing it in bulk is bloody boring.

I use a meplat trimmer from Montour County Rifles, and he now, like Hoover will not export. I initially tried a Sinclair Meplat Trimmer which was rubbish.

[Potshot2023]

Thanks for your advice and the benefit of your experience fellas. Based on that I’m going to apply the Law of Diminishing Returns, and spend the time saved on focusing on technique and wind reading.

[John Weigel]

Whidden is a pleasure to deal with, they send items immediately. I have a Whidden pointing die, in addition to Accuracy One, and it probably does the job just as well. https://www.whiddengunworks.com/bullet- ... -system-2/

[MacP]

I made a pointing die system that Matt Paroz has been using for a few years to point all his projectiles. Overcomes a lot of the problems of the Whidden with alignment and balancing of projectiles on the ram etc. Did a ton of testing of Berger and the old HBC at 700 meters measuring muzzle and terminal velocity. From memory there was just over 1% increase in terminal velocity by pointing. Matt says he has definitely increased the X count and with his record of wins I wouldn't question his findings. If there was sufficient interest in a locally made pointing system I would put them into production.

[Nick@2340]

The things I learn every day, I could do with a "mail forwarder" in the USA.

As for this topic, I too have been a TR shooter for fifty years and because of injuries I am dabbling with the 'forky stick brigade'.
I have pointed for TR for about ten years and learned stuff early, 155 Sierra point is really too small to point, of the other brand, all those I have tried need pointing because the meplat is irregular and on the big size for my liking ... especially 215g 30cal. Obviously the ELD-M can't be pointed, though I am waiting to see if someone proposes a pencil sharpener.

Take care,
Nick

[Aus9914]

Depends how badly the points are formed on the projectiles.
2011 prior to the Palma in BNE saw a bad batch of HBC 155 projectiles. As they came out of the box the tip was bent/burred and the boat tail radius was not the same as previous batches. Using the same load and rifle they were 1.5 - 2 minutes of angle in elevation worse than the previous batch I had been using - this was recorded over four different weekends over different distances on the same range. I don't know if the difference in BC between batches displayed by the need to increase elevation settings is transferable to wind deflection, but it was enough to know the new batch wasn't as good as the previous batch.
At the time the US was already trimming the meplat and pointing projectiles and that was the advice I got from there, unfortunately it was not legal at the time within the NRAA.
While trying to work out what was going on I did trim the meplat on some of the less than stellar projectiles which resulted in remarkably better consistency in elevation and grouping. But as the BC was already a shot duck my wind tables were useless and with no time to develop another load and wind tables that soured a lot of things.
In short, if your projectiles aren't up to scratch return them and get some that are.
Would I point projectiles, only after meplating them and probably only for long range benchrest shooting.

[Benji]

The things I learn every day, I could do with a "mail forwarder" in the USA.

As for this topic, I too have been a TR shooter for fifty years and because of injuries I am dabbling with the 'forky stick brigade'.
I have pointed for TR for about ten years and learned stuff early, 155 Sierra point is really too small to point, of the other brand, all those I have tried need pointing because the meplat is irregular and on the big size for my liking ... especially 215g 30cal. Obviously the ELD-M can't be pointed, though I am waiting to see if someone proposes a pencil sharpener.

Take care,
Nick

Pencil sharpener hey. Hold my beer.