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Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:58 pm
by KHGS
Rich4 wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 11:39 am
Originally Vihtavuori was imported by a tile wholesaler in Brisbane of all things, really took some finding for a bushy pre gps days
D W Custer were the importers of Vhitaroui, and Lapua. They used to be the Australian importers of Sako as well back in the day.
Keith H.
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:38 pm
by Rich4
Couldn’t think of their name to save myself
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:41 pm
by JezL
I have spoken with Steve at TigerBallistics. ... At present they are not importing anymore Viht powder as the demand is not there ... Store's / Dealer's dont want to hold stock of it when there is ADI powders available and cheaper ...
However if an Organisation / Storage dealer was onboard to, we could try 'convince' them ... however it wont be cheaper like ADI powder .. maybe $170 a pound. ... so 2-3 times the cost of ADI powder.
To make it a viable order ... it would need to be around 500 kg or so for the order - then need to be stored ( maybe NSWRA Store, for example )
The last order TigerBall made most, if not all, of the Rifle powder went to Qstore. I recall seeing 8lb of N555 for 1k ( or just under ) ... this is probably cheap now ...
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 4:33 pm
by PeteFox
JezL wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:41 pm
However if an Organisation / Storage dealer was onboard to, we could try 'convince' them ... however it wont be cheaper like ADI powder .. maybe $170 a pound. ... so 2-3 times the cost of ADI powder.
To make it a viable order ... it would need to be around 500 kg or so for the order - then need to be stored ( maybe NSWRA Store, for example )
That's around $187k, no wonder it's still in Finland
Pete
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:26 pm
by JezL
PeteFox wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 4:33 pm
JezL wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:41 pm
However if an Organisation / Storage dealer was onboard to, we could try 'convince' them ... however it wont be cheaper like ADI powder .. maybe $170 a pound. ... so 2-3 times the cost of ADI powder.
To make it a viable order ... it would need to be around 500 kg or so for the order - then need to be stored ( maybe NSWRA Store, for example )
That's around $187k, no wonder it's still in Finland
Pete
Yeah, thats based on the 500kg order ... however it would depend on what is available to actually order ... but still, not cheap
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:06 pm
by BATattack
500kg of powder is about a pallet. JezL what is the $170/lb based on?
This is the burn rate equivalent chart
https://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/
From what I've seen on other forums
N133 / N135 for 6ppc
N150 for 308 / FTR (N140 is shown as equivalent to 2208 but many say that it's actually faster / too fast)
N555 as a 2209 / 2213 substitute
N165 I believe was a favourite of the man Alan F. Makes sense when you consider it's single base and slow burning.
Lets say that landed it's double the cost of ADI. It's going to cost you about $450 more in powder per barrel for calibres with 1100 rounds of barrel life. More in calibres that already have longer barrel life. Ballpark barrel with chambering about $1500 so is it going to increase your barrel life by 30% to break even? Obviously there is also the time and component cost of developing a new barrel so one that lasts longer is also better in this respect.
F class shooters are probably in a small minority that might be willing to pay that much for a very small increase in performance. I have a contact I can ask but would need to know the realistic size of the order.
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:15 pm
by JezL
These are just the figures Steve (tiger Ballistics) was mentioning as an approximate - something as a consideration really ... with the way the Aussie dollar is (not good) and other factors, its really hard to know the final figure.
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 8:15 pm
by BATattack
Yeah no worries. For pistol powders there aren't many alternatives plus they use a lot less powder per round so can probably sustain a higher cost.
My gut feeling is not many people would be willing to pay more than 2x ADI for a similar product. How many people would be in and for what powders and quantities at that price?
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:34 pm
by Fire Dog
I did contact them late last year when I saw that they had stock on "some" Vihitavouri pistol powder and asked that very question and was told that "For the time being we are concentrating on the pistol powder market.."
If you can get a newer reply and they are willing to "piggyback" a private order then count me in for an 8 pounder of "Tripple Nickle" 555 and I am sure that Willow would be up for some as well for his 7PRCW.
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 5:35 pm
by JezL
Fire Dog wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:34 pm
I did contact them late last year when I saw that they had stock on "some" Vihitavouri pistol powder and asked that very question and was told that "For the time being we are concentrating on the pistol powder market.."
If you can get a newer reply and they are willing to "piggyback" a private order then count me in for an 8 pounder of "Tripple Nickle" 555 and I am sure that Willow would be up for some as well for his 7PRCW.
I spoke with Steve, and has wasnt doing another order as ADI have since started releasing pistol powder again ... He would assist in placing an order for rifle powder if we needed.
Im in the same position though ... I would order 2 or 3 x 8lber's of N555 ... however I think its more "how much $$" people want to chip in for, rather then how much powder they want
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:34 pm
by Joe308
Not always greener on the other side of the fence. We are blessed here with ADI powder, quantity and price. In South Africa we could shoot Vihtavuori, Hodgdon, Alliant, Norma and Somchem (Local powder made by Rheinmetall, cheap but dirty burning powder). Vihtavuori only had better batch to batch consistency but no other advantage. Vihtavuori N500 double based series of powders gave allot of throat erosion. N165 = 2209, N150 is slightly slower than 2208, N140 slightly faster than 2208. We didn't have N555, only N550 and N560, and later N565.
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2025 1:17 am
by Frank Green
I didn't read everything but from what I was told at Shot Show... powder supply is going to get even tougher this year for us here in the States. How that effects you shooters Down Under I don't know offhand. Earlier last year Reloader series of powders where no longer available for sale for us reloaders. Only sales where to OEM. VV told me that they just recently suspended all OEM sales. What they will be doing for the reloading market I was told they are trying they're best to support it. So if you can find what you can use... I'd look at stocking up to cover 3 years of shooting for your reloading needs as of right now.
Re: Better powders overseas?
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2025 1:18 am
by Frank Green
Double based powders are harder on the barrels. Yes typically you can get higher velocities but the trade off is they generate more heat typically.
