One Gun Challenge - Geelong Looks Okay

[Guest]

Alan,
I most likely would have joined you at Bendigo but we both know that will not happen. Geelong, whilst being a very comfortable environment is simply not a fair comparison of shooter skill or equipment. problem being and this is quite obvious, you will shoot 800 in the morning whilst i shoot 300 then when the wind blows in the afternoon i will shoot the longs and youll be back on the shorts or vice versa. target shooting can be unfair at the best of times but Geelong doubles or tripples the fact which is why turnouts at that range are very small.
In conclusion i will not be at Geelong.

[Chopper]

Well what about bendigo anyone interesred in that idea , love to see ya ADAM and ya old DAD.

[Guest]

Hi Chop,

i believe that is a designated shoot for the F open challenge so one gun wont be enough apparently. seems you have no problem with your 6X47,
good on ya mate.

[Chopper]

Maybe not how about my 1/12 308 with 175s ,ive seen them work good ,they dont have to be going hard either ,you might be suprised.

[AlanF]

Alan,
I most likely would have joined you at Bendigo but we both know that will not happen. Geelong, whilst being a very comfortable environment is simply not a fair comparison of shooter skill or equipment. problem being and this is quite obvious, you will shoot 800 in the morning whilst i shoot 300 then when the wind blows in the afternoon i will shoot the longs and youll be back on the shorts or vice versa. target shooting can be unfair at the best of times but Geelong doubles or tripples the fact which is why turnouts at that range are very small.
In conclusion i will not be at Geelong.

Adam,

I have to say I'm surprised you think that way about Geelong. Yes there is a greater element of luck there than with most ranges, and the main effect is to give shooters who aren't normally at the pointy end a better chance of getting a medal. If you had your way, and every element of luck was eliminated, we would get the same faces in the medals at every shoot. How boring would that be?

You appear to a big supporter of grading in F-Class Std because it gives the battler a go - why change your colours in this situation? I guess its okay to give the battlers a go, so long as they know their place in B Grade?

Alan

[AlanF]

..If your interested in comparing calibers/cartridges why not open the scope of this new contest to include rifles from other long range disciplines ..A number of guns shot in AUS are not eligible for your comps because of some simple rules ,if these could be relaxed, just for fun , then it may end up "the more the merrier"..

Jeff,

One of the main aims of this exercise, is to find the best all-round calibre for F-Class. Now, if you rolled up with your .300 AI heavy gun and cleaned us all up, what would that tell us about the suitability of .300 AI for F-Class? In my opinion, not much, because using that chambering successfully in a 10Kg F-Class rifle would be unlikely. So despite the more the merrier, there has to be a line drawn somewhere on equipment specs, and the obvious one is to use the F-Class Open specs. This allows any of F-Std, Match Rifle, and Light Gun.

(BTW the example given of your .300 Ack was just theoretical, you may not necessarily clean us up )

Alan

[Guest]

Alan,
You have assumed that the uncertainty of Geelong Range works FOR the battler. It can work AGAINST the battler also. Can't it?
Your Quip about the Battlers knowing their place in B grade was below the belt, and bordering on insulting ( or patronising as Ned would say ) to the B grade shooters. You know that's not true, so why say it?
At least we in FS made a place for the battlers, maybe thats why we have such a large following.
Your second quip about the same faces getting medals at every shoot, well, that applies now does it not? and more so to FO than FS.!!! Are you bored?
Whether Geelong Range is easy/hard, fair or unfair has absolutely nought to do with grading, so why mention it?
The present discussion is about the merits of different calibres and what Adam said about Geelong is true. If I was trying to decide which calibre is more suitable then I would try to eliminate as many variables ( including luck ) as I could, otherwise the end result means nothing.
Now, if this exercise was directed toward FS I guarantee there would be at least a dozen shooters there, possibly more. In FO you'r flogging a dead horse, so take my advice, don't embarrass yourself, give it away.
Barry

[Guest]

Alan,

please inform me where i mentioned grading and the good old battler, my post was not in any way related to the above mentioned by yourself. You have turned this thread on its end and gone on a different path, The element of luck as you call it is always going to be a part of this sport but there is a difference between luck and what i would call unfair.
Geelong is not the place to test calibre against calibre or shooter against shooter because of the previously mentioned disadvantages the range offers, If you have in mind learning something from this shoot then i believe you will be disillusioned by the circumstances in which the shoot takes place.

[a.JR]

e]

[AlanF]

Adam and Barry,

The element of luck relating to what time of day you shoot can be reduced substantially at Geelong simply by alternating all shoots for each shooter between short and long, so for example with the 5 ranges I am proposing in a day, shooter A may shoot 800, 300, 700, 500 then 600, then B will shoot 300, 700, 500, 600, 800, and C will shoot 700, 500, 600, 800,300 etc. On the other hand, if we held this thing at Bendigo, shooters who shoot there often, will have an advantage that will distort the results in a systematic way (ie in their favour). This is less likely at Geelong, and if we have say 20 shooters, each shooting 5 ranges, i.e. 1000 shots being fired, you'll find that there will be definite trends as far as the best calibres. Nothing either of you have said convinces me otherwise.

If any of my comments appeared to be below the belt, its because I get tired of the knockers, and in this case I'm talking about all the shooters who seem to have decided to stay away from Geelong, and you Adam seem to be including yourself in that group. Don't you agree that it is a great all-weather facility, gives you more shooting in a day, gives more shooters a chance of success, and provides a refreshing change to the normal shooting format (including the imminent arrival of electronic targets)? Sure it has by its nature some things it can't provide as well as other ranges, but overall it is a very enjoyable place to shoot. And I've seen some good shooters there in all categories. I remember seeing John Eland getting a score of 60 followed by a score in the 40s , and he keeps coming back.

And a fact that shouldn't go unmentioned about the Anakie range, is that its very existence is due largely to one of the most generous benefactors to shooting that we will ever see. What we have here is a classic case of looking a gift horse in the mouth don't you think?

Alan

[John E]

Hey Al,
I can do that at any range
John

[Guest]

Yes Alan it is a great all wheather facility, i have never said it was not, i hate getting wet and it is not pleasent to be shooting in 40 degree heat either, that still does not take away the facts i have mentioned earlier, however you can not have everything all at the same time. All said, that is what Geelong wanted to do and thats fine by me, but saying i will not go there does not mean i do not appreciate the efforts of the members and moneys given or loaned by Mr Neville Trevena to support the facility, it is simply not for me, Im not the first to say that i will not go a specific rifle range, many will not travell to Bacchus marsh because it is a very windy range, Canberra is also hard and Bendigo can be a right bitch, at the end of the day shooters will decide where they go and attendance numbers will show this, Problem is, untill someone takes notice and finds the reasons why, nothing will change, but then again, not everyone wants to find out.

[John E]

It is disappointing for any club to run a prize meeting and not get a good attendance, after organising badges and trophies, food, etc, and this has resulted in the loss of several prize shoots in recent times, Lancefield and Robinvale, the being most recent.
As shooters, we cannot allow this to continue, or we won't have any prize meetings to go to.
F Class, particularly since the advent of grading, has gone some way towards improving attendances, but there is still a lot more that we can do. I believe that if a prize meeting is within, say, two hours drive from home, then we should do all we can to support it. My own club has closed our range on a day when there has been a prize meeting elsewhere, and we have encouraged our members to go to the prize shoot. If every club could get five or six members to go along, then the prize shoot would be well attended, and that would not be a big ask.
What I have noticed is that they don't get support from clubs within their own association. This has been obvious in the last 12 months at Moe, Bacchus Marsh, Geelong, Castlemaine, Vic Police at Werribee, Rosedale, to name a few. It is up to all of us to fix the problem. In fact, any club that runs a prize meeting should make the effort to support other clubs' prize meetings, and this would go a long way to improving attendances.
I don't view the two ranges mentioned in posts here, Geelong and Bacchus Marsh, as unfair --- they, particularly Geelong, are simply a bit different to what some of us may be used to. They still deserve support when they run a prize meeting.
The luck of the draw has always been part and parcel of rifle shooting, whether it has resulted in a shooter getting an unkind patch of wind or rain, or perhaps a good patch when everyone else has had the crook stuff, and this applies at any venue.
Don't forget --- if you don't support someone else's prize meeting, then you can't complain when they don't support yours, so let's all do our part--- it's up to all of us to improve the situation.
John

[AlanF]

Well said John. It takes a big effort, usually from a few people within the host club, to put on a good prize meeting. I'm not saying we necessarily owe those people - they do it because they want to. However anyone who is undecided about whether or not to go, just spare a thought for those unpaid people doing all the cooking, repairing, mowing, painting, organising and the list goes on. It really is rewarding for them to see a good turnout of satisfied "customers". And its important to give feedback on things that could be improved, rather than just saying nothing and not going back next year. That way, everyone benefits.

Alan

[John E]

Alan,
talking of events, are we right for next Saturday please?
John