F/TR - Positive Input Required

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:25 am

Mr Fireman,
Your memory is short -- it was only a few short weeks ago that we " Davies Triggers " offered to sponsor F/TR at the next Vic Queens. Our offer was subsequently withdrawn because the councilor concerned refused to put our offer to the VRA.
I did'nt hear anybody else ( on this site ) getting behind us with support at the time. Yes, a few " good on you mate " comments but no real support, -- so who is negative and who is not?
I was not arguing about the merits or otherwise of F/TR rifles, merely pointing out that they will be more than competitive with FS and FO rifles. The comparisons WILL be made as all disciplines shoot at the same target.
Your statement that " without F/TR class, competitors must be far superior shooters to compete evenly " simply highlights what I said, vis " that there is a general misconception that F/TR is somehow of lesser standard than FS."
This is not so as you and others will see when the purpose built F/TR rifles show up. Believe me they will not be converted target rifles or hunting rifles, but dedicated, heavy barreled, custom chambered, right up to weight limit rifles, which, as I said will compete in every way with FS and FO rifles.

Barry

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:12 pm

Barry,

I agree that F/TR equipment has the potential (mainly being in the right hands) for being competitive with F-Std, but who cares - they won't be competing. The key thing about F/TR is that it offers a combination which will be more attractive to some shooters than the current offerings, and I believe it will increase the total number of shooters in our sport.

On the subject of support for your sponsorship offer, you weren't entirely without support on this site :

AlanF wrote:BTW I applaud your offer of financial support for F/TR

And I hope you put the offer again, maybe for the 2013 Queens?

Alan

Southcape · Post by **Southcape** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:31 pm

While I agree that F/TR is more closely related to F Std than F/Open, at this early stage we really need to run it in Open due to the unrestricted ammo. As numbers increase we can look at running F/TR on it's own.

Southcape · Post by **Southcape** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:37 pm

Barry, just do what I do. My correspondence to WARA gets emailed in to the EO, with the Chairman, F Class Rep and our DRA Delegate all copied in.

They can't all deny they received the email when they each know who has been copied in on it.

Anyone that rejects sponsorship in this movement, really needs to take a look at themselves, and decide if they are right for the future of our sport.

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:42 pm

Like I said Alan, a few " good on ya mate " comments, but no real support when it became obvious the offer was not going to be accepted. And like I also said, did'nt hear anybody else standing up telling the councilor concerned he was not acting in the best interests of our sport. No, the offer won't extend to 2013, if the VRA is not interested and the proponents of F/TR on this site are not willing to stand up and be counted, why should we bust our arses to help.

Barry

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:45 pm

Barry,
I see your point on dedicated F/TR rifles being the equal to or better than some F-std rifle systems due to projectile choice. I am actually having a rifle built at the moment that could fit into that category with a second barrel. Just not sure if that is the way I want to go as I am keen on giving F-Open a shake up.
At the moment there are thousands of .308's out there that only need a Harris Bipod and a willing shooter to have some fun and be competitive in F/TR. That's where I am comming from with my current .308.
Sure down the track some shooters will go all in to build the best rifles that money can buy, but there will always be a swag of lesser rifles out there with shooters willing to have a go. In the end, that may prove to be more fun.
Interesting times ahead.

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:07 pm

Norm,
There is " no down the track " about it, those dedicated rifles are being built now - this minute - in readiness. I have mine already - built to serve both FS and F/TR, designed to remove a little weight for F/TR and chambered to accept any projectile up to 185 gn ( 308 )
It's the " lesser " ones you mention that concern me because I don't see F/TR as being any different to FS -- you are still going to have the " haves " and "have nots" The have nots in FS are now going to be the have nots in F/TR
FS caters for most in that it is graded, - what about F/TR?
Currently we have no dedicated place for -- as you call them -- " the lesser rifles out there " and contrary to what some think F/TR aint going to fix that.

Barry

Norm · Post by **Norm** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:47 pm

Barry Davies wrote:Norm,
FS caters for most in that it is graded, - what about F/TR?
Currently we have no dedicated place for -- as you call them -- " the lesser rifles out there " and contrary to what some think F/TR aint going to fix that.

Barry

Interesting Barry,
So you can see "Grading" in F/TR if it is introduced?

jcinsa · Post by **jcinsa** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:55 pm

See announcement under Events

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:07 pm

Norm,
Not necessarily grading as in FS but certainly a distinction between the dedicated F/TR rifle and the sporting rifle. In the states they lump them all in together, and I must admit I don't know how it works. What I do know is that an off the shelf sporting rifle will generally not match a dedicated F/TR rifle. You can rebarrel your sporting rifle to something that resembles an F/TR rifle then it is no longer a sporting rifle, and this is probably what will happen --down the track.
If you are going to encourage those people who own sporting rifles to join up and shoot F/TR then you must also accommodate them -- unless of course they are happy to simply send shots down range and not worry about being competitive, -some people are happy doing that I guess, but I ponder at the future of it.
I believe that with the probable introduction of F/TR there is also the opportunity to go further and introduce along with it and complimenting it ( F/TR ) a division that caters for the sporting rifle, even if this is only done at a club level initially.
Like always, somebody has to do the work and that can be a put- off.

Enough! I'm off the soapbox.

Barry

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:05 pm

Are there many Match Rifle shooters who are looking at F/TR as a way of shooting at OPMs/Queens with their MR ammo? Currently MR events are relatively infrequent, and shooters travel extensively to compete. Many MR setups will qualify for F/TR and this will dramatically increase their opportunities to compete at the 1000yd and less.

johnk · Post by **johnk** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:47 pm

Wouldn't think so. Most who don't shoot TR have serviceable FS rigs aside from their match rifles.

Post by **AlanF** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:54 pm

johnk wrote:Wouldn't think so. Most who don't shoot TR have serviceable FS rigs aside from their match rifles.

John,

I know of one who's put his name down for F/TR at Raton 2013 - his match rifles will be legal. Maybe there are others like-minded.

Alan

RAVEN · Post by **RAVEN** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:35 pm

Are there many Match Rifle shooters who are looking at F/TR as a way of shooting at OPMs/Queens with their MR ammo? Currently MR events are relatively infrequent, and shooters travel extensively to compete. Many MR setups will qualify for F/TR and this will dramatically increase their opportunities to compete at the 1000yd and less.

Alan I know of a few

Barry my offer is still open :idea:

RB

Fireman_DJ · Post by **Fireman_DJ** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:48 pm

Barry, I must have missed that post.

This is a unique class of shooting and anybody who lumps together the scores from different classes without taking into consideration the different styles shooting and equipment is missing the point.

I was speaking with one of our target rifle shooters who said he was thinking about buying a .223 to use in F/TR. Shooting a scoped rifle off a sling.

I have also got plans to do some (not all) shooting off a sling.