Numbers at Prize Meetings

DannyS · Post by **DannyS** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:49 pm

From what I have observed recently at OPMs, quite often F Class shooters either out number TR shooters or at least equal them, yet when it comes to trophies etc, we appear to be the poor cousins, likewise with result write-ups.

I look forward to the time a F Class shooter gets chaired in.

ger · Post by **ger** » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:11 pm

My observations in recent times of various clubs I deal with on a regular basis is that active F-class shooters (collectively "scope" shooters if you like) outnumber TR shooters. Quite significantly.

I think there is a message out there somewhere. And I say this as a TR shooter (of sorts - not a very good one).

Geoff.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:32 am

If that's the case then they don't compete? 2012 Queens results (just the first 4 I looked up):
TR..... 105 ... 99 ... 113 ... 154
FClass .44 ... 80 .... 39 .... 76

In Canberra the numbers got close but not in QLD or NSW! I think that F Class will remain the 'poor' cousin until their/our numbers improve at State and National level competition!

Cheers

David

ger · Post by **ger** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:56 am

I wasn't referring to numbers at Queen's events. I was referring to clubs I deal with. A couple have only one or two TR shooters. The rest, F class.

Quite a few of the F class shooters are former TR who have had to change for various reasons - often medical. A lot of new shooters seem to want to simply use scopes. These are just my own observations. More broadly throughout Australia it may well be different.

Whatever, I think it would be unwise to ignore the growing numbers of people wanting to shoot with scopes. It's only a matter of time IMO before the numbers and ratios change at OPM and probably Queen's levels.

Geoff.

TOM · Post by **TOM** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:00 am

On the brighter side Danny, when you walk away from a prize meeting or Queens with a badge in F class you have earnt it, They appear to hand out badges in TR willy nilly, in a lot of cases they seem to be more of an attendance award than a reward for good shooting!

DaveMc · Post by **DaveMc** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:32 am

higginsdj wrote:If that's the case then they don't compete? 2012 Queens results (just the first 4 I looked up):
TR..... 105 ... 99 ... 113 ... 154
FClass .44 ... 80 .... 39 .... 76

In Canberra the numbers got close but not in QLD or NSW! I think that F Class will remain the 'poor' cousin until their/our numbers improve at State and National level competition!

Cheers

David

Dave - the key is encouraging scopies to turn up to Queens. The TR shooters show fantastic commitment and turn up in great numbers. Things are changing but it needs everyone's help in encouraging club members to get to the big events. They will definitely enjoy it.

higginsdj · Post by **higginsdj** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:34 am

I don't argue that there are a lot of FClass shooters out there but the point I am trying to make is that there could be 1000% more Fclass shooters than TR shooters but unless they actually compete why would there be any change to the sport? How many of those new shooters are serious about competition or is it just a weekend club level social type competition situation?

I imagine that many new shooters get into FClass because it is perceived to be easier than TR - I did. I don't compete in and have/had no intention of going off to OPMs either. I have since taken up TR as well (if for no other reason than to learn how to shoot) and my view about taking part in OPM/Queens style competition has changed. Its just unfortunate that I have to choose one or the other to compete in....

So what should change? Prizes are awarded at the discretion of the meet organiser aren't they? - ie club or district level. If there are more Fclass than TR shooters competing and the prizes are disproportionally distributed why have FClass shooters not done anything about it? You obviously have the numbers so at Club AGM time - change the attitude at the club, Clubs can then change the attitude at the district/state level and so on. FClass shooters as a general population can't do anything because of the hierarchy of how the sport is organised. If you want to see change then it has to start at the club.

(I do note that in the US, all the champions are chaired in - not just TR per the recent Raton writeup)

Cheers

David

Wakey7 · Post by **Wakey7** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:15 am

TOM wrote: They appear to hand out badges in TR willy nilly, in a lot of cases they seem to be more of an attendance award than a reward for good shooting!

I Dont think that this comment is quite true.

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:52 am

The question remains -- if the organization reduced the number of badges to 50% ( for example ) what effect would this have upon entry numbers?
Having said that I believe 30 Queens badges for less than 150 entries ( in one grade ) is somewhat of a gift to at least 10 shooters.
Barry

DannyS · Post by **DannyS** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:26 pm

I appreciate that it can be difficult for clubs hosting PMs as most times they can only go by previous years as to number likely to attend.
Checking the results at the Port Campbell PM on New Years showed:

TR A grade 9 entries
TR B 5
TR C 6
FA 9
FB 3
FO 0

Prize list, TR A 7 badges, B 3, C 2, FA 1, FB 2, FO 0

Cash TRA $120, FA & FB $50 each.

Basically I think the ball is in our court, maybe more F ers need to get involved in the organisational side of things.

Cheers
Danny

bartman007 · Post by **bartman007** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:53 pm

Badge numbers and equality.

I agree with you Danny, it would be great to see some more leveling of the prizes.

From your numbers at recent prize meetings, I'd suggest that 2 badges is probably enough for TR A grade. So it is clear that FA with 1 badge wasn't enough compared to the 7 available for TR A grade.

But it really does come back to the organisers, and they should be more level handed when dishing out winnings. Basically TR A and FA should have had EQUAL prizes in this instance.

I have since taken up TR as well (if for no other reason than to learn how to shoot)

Higginsdj, really??? You need to shoot with a heavy jacket on and look through peep sights to learn how to shoot?

I leant how to shoot growing up on a farm, using a 22, and most of the time I was leaning against trees or fence posts. Don't waste your money on iron sights if you already have an F Class setup. I find shooting F Class has improved my shooting, as I now have more time to focus on reading wind. That is where it is won and lost.

(I do note that in the US, all the champions are chaired in - not just TR per the recent Raton writeup)

It seems they may be coming around slowely, if Canberra is any sign of things to come. At least they all got to sit together, which is a step in the right direction.

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:21 pm

Most notable about Canberra was that some shooters, after receiving their prize stepped sideways and congratulated the TR Queens winner but obviously failed to see the two F Class winners sitting alongside :evil:

VERY Bad PR--actually, plain ignorance.
And that is an example of what FC is up against, quite amazing.
Barry

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:15 pm

An old mate of mine Fred Duncan, had his first Queens win in 1966 i think with 1167 or 1067 shooters and ime sure he backed it up the next year in Sydney, they are badges to have, Barry would you have some figures and numbers of shooters from the past ?, some of my earlier Queens badges , first one was in 1982 and i will never forget because of the numbers, back then ANY Queens badge was well earned, I can see the respect for a Queens badge from fullbore shooters, lets not give them away and forget the origin of a Queens badge, i think it was only given to the top ten percent once ? can others please help me put the TRUE value of a Queens badge ?, What are the numbers in England ? 2, 3000, ? at a Queens, Chop.

Barry Davies · Post by **Barry Davies** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:36 pm

Don't really want to revisit the " old days " and it's probably unfair to compare, but Williamstown usually catered for some 6 or 700 shooters most years. I do not know the proportions of A, B and C ( no FC of course ) But 50 Queens badges for A grade was not what I would call too many, and winning a badge in that company was no mean achievement.
Different now days where a respectable Queens entry is 250 of which 50 to 80 are FC and 120 TRA is a good number.( typical numbers )
I don't believe Queens badges should be an " encouragement award "
Barry

Chopper · Post by **Chopper** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:04 pm

Thanks Barry, 600 or 700 shooters is about right,and and you could claim a badge depending on your score weather A B or C grade, it woudnt happen with FO, FS ime sure, Chop.