Font plate info for f tr??

[mike H]

Precisely my original point,FTR is an International match,yet the Australian rules director writes rules that may be interpreted in a different way. Whether that was the intention or not,the gate is open.
However proposed rule 20.39 says :The rear bag may not be joined to the front bipod nor may be spiked to the ground.
With a World Championship coming up it would seem advisable to follow the ICFRA rules.
Mike.

But with the National teams matches coming up why handicap yourself by refusing to use a bit of kit that would help you and is quite legal under the SSRs.

Barry

It may be hard for others to understand but I try to have principles,the reason I went to FTR was because Fstandard had no rules . My understanding of the SSR Australian rules July 2015 is that they mean it.Obviously I live in a different planet to most others.Good luck to you all.
Mike.

[bsouthernau]

And the best of good luck to you too Mike. FWIW I think the most sensible thing would have been for the NRAA to say "we're adopting FTR in Australia and the ICFRA rules apply". Full stop. That's all that was needed. However that didn't happen and now, as in other fields of endeavour, we have to go about our business in consideration of the applicable legislative framework which, in the case of domestic competition, is the SSRs.

Barry

[Tim L]

And the best of good luck to you too Mike. FWIW I think the most sensible thing would have been for the NRAA to say "we're adopting FTR in Australia and the ICFRA rules apply". Full stop. That's all that was needed. However that didn't happen ....

Errrm, I'd have to defend Bob and the crew here because actually it did happen.
The initial introduction of FTR rules into SSR was a cut and paste from ICFRA Rules 2009

Extracted from the 2009 ICFRA rules

"F2.19. Any number and type of object(s) (of any material) may be placed beneath each rest to
compensate for variations in the height, slope or surface of the firing point, also beneath and
around any rear sandbag or beanbag to reduce its rolling, but such objects may not touch the
rifle fore-end or butt."

ICFRA then changed the rules in the 2014 revision to what they have now! Can we simply write SSR to say FO and FTR equipment must meet ICFRA rules? Or even go so far as to say they will be shot under ICFRA rules? What are the implications?

I appreciate your standpoint Mike. I'm all ready to switch to the ICFRA rules as soon as they're incorporated into SSR, but Mt Vince has a nice spongy grass mounds, and Belmont can be very much the same. If all the FTR shooters want to agree to them now I'd happily go with the flow. Until then,,,, I'm on spikes

[bsouthernau]

Errrm, I'd have to defend Bob and the crew here because actually it did happen.
The initial introduction of FTR rules into SSR was a cut and paste from ICFRA Rules 2009

Think you might have missed my point Tim. It SHOULDN'T have been a cut and paste. That means you have to keep on cutting and pasting forever and you're always one step behind. You end up with the situation we're in now where the current SSR 20.40 is the old ICFRA F 2.19 when it would be much better if it was the same as the new ICFRA F 2.9. What I was getting at was we should have just said that we'll shoot FTR according to whatever the current ICFRA rules happen to be and leave it at that.

Barry

[bsouthernau]

And a PS to my previous post. Maybe that mightn't be a bad policy for FO either and - dare I say it - TR as well.

[Tim L]

Errrm, I'd have to defend Bob and the crew here because actually it did happen.
The initial introduction of FTR rules into SSR was a cut and paste from ICFRA Rules 2009

Think you might have missed my point Tim. It SHOULDN'T have been a cut and paste. That means you have to keep on cutting and pasting forever and you're always one step behind. You end up with the situation we're in now where the current SSR 20.40 is the old ICFRA F 2.19 when it would be much better if it was the same as the new ICFRA F 2.9. What I was getting at was we should have just said that we'll shoot FTR according to whatever the current ICFRA rules happen to be and leave it at that.

Barry

Sorry mate, I gotcha now.

[plumbs7]

Hi all ,
Sounds like a good discussion has taken place since I was here last !

Shane , I thought my simple Harris would only be about 250-300 grams. I'll take my Harris with me and get it weighed at the Nats just to see , for future Ftr matches .

Sorry , no I won't be at the Natives OPM , but say Hi to a Mr Brain Pickles for me ( my other Nemsis )!
Things have improved a little here economic wise here in Chinchilla . But it's just my oldest Son and myself working. So only can shoot the 3 days !

Mike thanks for the encouraging words!

Tim if time, ammo and the RO Allow , I would be hounered to have a shot of ur gun . Maybe at 1000yds at the end and you can bang a few with my Panda mate!

Can't wait to meet all of you and catch up! For me that is the best part of the Nats!
Best wishes Graham.

[ShaneG]

See you there Graham

Back to previous post - I agree 100% with Mike on this one and I would say Barry is similar?
We are competing in an International discipline and that should be the rules we follow.
Otherwise we are shooting just another bastardised Australia only match.

[bsouthernau]

...Back to previous post - I agree 100% with Mike on this one and I would say Barry is similar?.....

Yes, you're quite correct there Shane. However I also agree with Tim who has pointed out that, as things currently stand and whether we like it or not, plates with spikes ARE legal for use in F/TR in Australia.

[Southcape]

F/TR should be shot to the INTERNATIONAL ICFRA Rules.

We all know the rules have been updated. Be prepared for some protests is your gear does not comply to the current FTR rules!

[Tim L]

F/TR should be shot to the INTERNATIONAL ICFRA Rules.

We all know the rules have been updated. Be prepared for some protests is your gear does not comply to the current FTR rules!

Which ones?
Does that go for ammo as well?

[Tim N]

Hi All,
Maybe you could start another class called FTR international
Otherwise the FTR crew who are planning to shoot over seas could comply with those rules and shun those who don't.
I'm not shooting FTR but it does appeal even for the fact you don't need so much "stuff".

[Tim L]

Just a quick update, the SSR link on the NRAA site now goes to SSRs 1st July 2015 version 4.0b (was previously Version 4.0).

Ver 4.0b contains the "new" ICRFA F-TR section,,,, no spikes.

[bsouthernau]

And has now been superseded by 4.0(c). There is also an email from Bob P extant which contains some determinations of what they mean.

1. You may place carpet or similar flexible matting under both front and rear rests.
2. You may place a flat plate or board under both front and rear rests. No levelling screws or protrusions are allowed.
3. If a Plate or board is used it must be FLAT on both top and bottom, with no design features that that give a firmer or tighter grip to the ground. Note that this bans plates such as the “mesh” plates queried by South Australia. In some circumstances such as gravel or dirt mounds, a mesh plate could embed itself into the ground much more firmly that a flat solid plate. i.e. the plate/board should be free to slide horizontally in every direction.
4. You may stack additional flat plates or flexile matting on top of the bottom plate if needed to raise the rear bag. This often occurs when there is a lot of slope on the mound. Again no protrusions are allowed on the extra plates.
5. NOTE:- Both front and back plates/boards or matting have a limit on their size. See Rule 20.40. (2 inches on any given side. That means 2 inches bigger on both sides, and front and rear. The Bipod plate/mat may be 12 inches deep)
6. You may place or glue flexible matting or material to the top of plates/boards, as long as the surface remains flat.
7. The plate or board may not have side rails or raised edges, and the rear bag must be free to move horizontally in all directions.
8. Some shooters put a Sandbag directly on the ground and then place their rear sandbag on this. This is permissible.
9. Some shooters put a “Dead-Bottom” bag (doughnut bag) directly on the ground and then put their rear bag on this. This is permissible.
10. You may put a “Dead-Bottom” bag (doughnut bag) on the rear plate. This is permissible as long as the doughnut bag and rear bag are free to move in any direction.

Greatly relieved to note that my gear complies with his determinations.

Barry

[ShaneG]

Bob P has sent out rule changes effective 01/07/15.
Therefore they will apply for Teams.