Copperhead projectile approval?

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Wal86
Posts: 163
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Location: Kilmore, VIC

Copperhead projectile approval?

#1 Postby Wal86 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:35 pm

Hey fellas,

With Berger bullets being harder to obtain in Australia, would this be an opportunity to raise the question about getting both Copperhead 22 and 30cal projectiles approved, for use in both TR and FS?

- quality bullet made in our own backyard
- gives shooters another option.
- makes it hard for new shooters to get involved if projectiles are unavailable?

I think this would be a positive for the sport, but wouldn't know who/how to raise the question... I would be interested to hear what others thoughts are, as this could potentially get the ball rolling/ right people involved..

Cheers

Alan

Matt P
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#2 Postby Matt P » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:16 pm

Alan
To get the ball rolling you would need a State Association to put it to the board for approval. I would suggest asking Ken if he could handle supply first thou.
Matt P

lonerider43
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#3 Postby lonerider43 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:03 pm

ICFRA Rules on projectiles.:

T2.19.2. Bullet:
T2.19.2.1. The .308 bullet diameter will be between .3075” and .3085”. No
single bullet may exceed 156 grains in weight (or the factory
tolerance for 155 grain ammunition where factory ammunition is in
use).
T2.19.2.2. The bullet diameter for .223 Remington will be between .2235” and
.2245”. No single bullet may exceed 81 grains in weight (or the
factory tolerance for 80 grain ammunition where factory ammunition
is used).

SSR's V5.0e May 2018
Appendix 1

PROJECTILES ALLOWED
The following projectiles are at present approved for handloading for Target Rifle and F Class Standard Disciplines.
.308 Calibre
ADI – FMJ Projectiles 144 grain
Sierra MatchKing 2155 155 grain
Sierra Palma MatchKing 2156 155 grain
BJD - HBC .308 155 grain
Optimus HBC 155.5 grain
Nosler HPBT .308 155 grain
Berger VLD Match Target 155 grain Berger Match Fullbore Target 155.5 grain Berger Match Hybrid Target 155 grain
.223 Calibre
Sierra - MatchKing .224 69 grain
Sierra - MatchKing .224 80 grain
ELD Match .224 80 grain
Hornady – Amax .224 80 grain
Nosler – HPBT .224 80 grain
JLK VLD:- .224 80 grain.
Berger Match VLD Target:- .224 80 grain.
Berger Match Fullbore Target:- .224 80.5 grain.
.303 Calibre
Any projectile to maximum weight of 180 grains.

why would we need more and expensive projectiles than we have listed.??
Australian's Against "Gun-A-Phobia"

Wal86
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#4 Postby Wal86 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:19 am

Matt P wrote:Alan
To get the ball rolling you would need a State Association to put it to the board for approval. I would suggest asking Ken if he could handle supply first thou.
Matt P


Thanks Matt, asking Ken would be a first priority, if there was to be a follow on that members would benefit having his projectiles approved...
Just putting it out there to see what others think?

cheers
Last edited by Wal86 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

BATattack
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:29 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#5 Postby BATattack » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:33 am

How much better are the bergers than the HBC? I
dont shoot standard so never really had a need to check!

bsouthernau
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:31 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#6 Postby bsouthernau » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:42 am

lonerider43 wrote:why would we need more and expensive projectiles than we have listed.??


Now that the list is so long why bother to have it at all? What's gained by excluding others of the same weight?

Matt P
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#7 Postby Matt P » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:40 am

bsouthernau wrote:
lonerider43 wrote:why would we need more and expensive projectiles than we have listed.??


Now that the list is so long why bother to have it at all? What's gained by excluding others of the same weight?


The NRAA's cut !!!!!

Matt P
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#8 Postby Matt P » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:44 am

Wal86 wrote:
Matt P wrote:Alan
To get the ball rolling you would need a State Association to put it to the board for approval. I would suggest asking Ken if he could handle supply first thou.
Matt P


Thanks Matt, asking Ken would be a first priority, if there was to be a follow on that members would benefit having his projectiles approved...
Just putting it out there to see what others think?

cheers

I think following the ICFRA rules would be the way to go, we almost use the rest of the rule book for TR and the FS ammo rules are based on TR.
Last edited by Matt P on Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#9 Postby bruce moulds » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:11 am

"the nraa's cut"
the bullet tax.
rumour has it that there is discussion at high levels to limit fopen and ftr bullets, so a similar tax can be put in place.
argument being that fstd and tr is shouldering an unfair financial burden compared to ftr and fopen.
when thay had control of the tax, they even managed to stuff that up.
there are many ways to raise money other than a bullet tax, which is just a copout method.
another thought is that if you limit bullet choices, you have to guarantee supply, and they have to be of competitive quality and design to what the rest of the world uses.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Wal86
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#10 Postby Wal86 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:19 am

bruce moulds wrote:"the nraa's cut"
the bullet tax.
rumour has it that there is discussion at high levels to limit fopen and ftr bullets, so a similar tax can be put in place.
argument being that fstd and tr is shouldering an unfair financial burden compared to ftr and fopen.
bruce.


I hope that is just a rumour Bruce..

Matt P,
I wasn't aware of the ICFRA rules in relation to projectile weight until now, so im guessing this has been a topic once before... Ive only bought this up now, because of the predicament we have with the lack of Berger bullets in Australia, this may possibly make it easier for change?
There are some good options we currently can't use that would be within ICFRA rules that surely our state stores could still stock and us as members should support?

Just a thought
Last edited by Wal86 on Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

BATattack
Posts: 964
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:29 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#11 Postby BATattack » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:56 pm

They need to have them before they can sell them . . . .with or without tax.

bruce moulds
Posts: 2390
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#12 Postby bruce moulds » Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:13 pm

wal,
it is not the icfra that is rumoured to be the problem.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Matt P
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#13 Postby Matt P » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Bruce
As much as I don't have time for the NRAA in it's current form, I think that's just a rumour and also something they couldn't afford to enforce (might cost some membership :roll: :roll:).

Alan
It's come up a few times, mainly prior to the introduction of the Bergers as Palma teams have to adhere to ICFRA rules. So Lapua's etc had been used in testing in the lead up to the Palma.

The fairest way forward with the "bullet tax" would be to add to the membership fee for everyone and drop the bullet tax and restrictions.

Matt P

lonerider43
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#14 Postby lonerider43 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:17 pm

i wasnt having a go at anyone,or the question,just adding some info i thought was purtinant to the original question.
isnt the whole open slather on projies the main point of fopen ? [im probably wrong,but..]
Australian's Against "Gun-A-Phobia"

Matt P
Posts: 1300
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Copperhead projectile approval?

#15 Postby Matt P » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:21 pm

lonerider43 wrote:i wasnt having a go at anyone,or the question,just adding some info i thought was purtinant to the original question.
isnt the whole open slather on projies the main point of fopen ? [im probably wrong,but..]

It's not open slather you still need to be 30cal, less than 156 grains. Lets face it other than a barrel liking a particular bullet you can only get so performance (BC) within those parameters. There are a few other great bullets such as Lapua scenas, Amax etc that cost no more than the Bergers and may work better in particular barrels.
Matt P


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