I travel to Bisley every year and quite like shooting Bisley style and I am certain that it has helped my wind reading abilities. From this experience however, I know that there is one major drawback of Bisley style in Australia.
In the UK you are laying on the ground in 20 -30 degree temperatures, most times even lower temperatures. For a match rifle or target rifle shooter done up in their shooting jacket this is not too bad in the cooler climes. But If you are laying on the ground for double or triple the time in 30 to 40 degree temperatures as in many Australian major events in padded jackets and sometimes a pullover underneath, this becomes unbearable and maybe even dangerous to you health.
I know that very few F class shooters actually use jackets, so will not be affected as much by the hot conditions experienced at many Australian major events.
Even in the June/July/August months (winter) it can still reach very hot temperatures in Brisbane, Darwin and Alice Springs.
I think this is probably the main reason that Australia uses the string shooting method over pair or threesome!!!! style.
Regards - Philip
Bisley style shooting
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Re: Bisley style shooting
why we string shoot is in the history of fullbore in this country.
the sport was used as a supplimentary form of defence for aust. and shooters were held in respect by the public.
the military supplied ammunition and cheap rifles, and ran the ranges.
the nraa was an organ of the military, greasing the cogs of what they wanted.
one thing the military wanted was the ability to fire numbers of shots accurately and with a degree of speed.
this suited ww1 tactics,as well as ww2.
the social structure of the nraa was loaded with military brass, the beginnings of the "old boys's club" that has all but been the downfall of long range shooting in thuis country of latter times. but that is another story.
string shooting came from the military, as it did in the usa as well.
with the coming of fclass, and using rests, string shooting has become an artform.
it the usa, shooters are allowed many sighters before going for score, and they aim off for preference during the string.
this does not suit team shooting, as has been proven by aust f open teams twice now.
the world beating skills gained could well be lost if we neglect this aspect of the sport.
as of now, tr still holds the power in long range shooting in this country when oush comes to shove.
we have all felt a need to remain connected to tr and stay as one movement.
maybe it is time for tr to start recognizing our needs, because if the do not, they might find themselves without us.
we are not part of the military tradition any more, as the military has made it clear that they do not want us.
they did their utmost to get rid of "any rifle " shooting in favour of military, but now tr and fclass are both "any rifle" in the historical sense.
we are part if an international competitive movement and bisley training will keep us at the top longer than string shooting.
keep safe,
bruce.
the sport was used as a supplimentary form of defence for aust. and shooters were held in respect by the public.
the military supplied ammunition and cheap rifles, and ran the ranges.
the nraa was an organ of the military, greasing the cogs of what they wanted.
one thing the military wanted was the ability to fire numbers of shots accurately and with a degree of speed.
this suited ww1 tactics,as well as ww2.
the social structure of the nraa was loaded with military brass, the beginnings of the "old boys's club" that has all but been the downfall of long range shooting in thuis country of latter times. but that is another story.
string shooting came from the military, as it did in the usa as well.
with the coming of fclass, and using rests, string shooting has become an artform.
it the usa, shooters are allowed many sighters before going for score, and they aim off for preference during the string.
this does not suit team shooting, as has been proven by aust f open teams twice now.
the world beating skills gained could well be lost if we neglect this aspect of the sport.
as of now, tr still holds the power in long range shooting in this country when oush comes to shove.
we have all felt a need to remain connected to tr and stay as one movement.
maybe it is time for tr to start recognizing our needs, because if the do not, they might find themselves without us.
we are not part of the military tradition any more, as the military has made it clear that they do not want us.
they did their utmost to get rid of "any rifle " shooting in favour of military, but now tr and fclass are both "any rifle" in the historical sense.
we are part if an international competitive movement and bisley training will keep us at the top longer than string shooting.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
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Re: Bisley style shooting
While officiating at the Oceania Games (the shakedown for the Commonwealth Games next year), I have had the opportunity to discover what time allowance is made for pair shooting at that level. Considering the shooter, marking & scoring, they squad on the basis of 1 minute per shot plus an allowance of something in the order of 35%.
In fact, the shooting time allowed for the remaining individual matches is:
10 plus two sighters (300, 500 & 600) - 35 minutes
15 shots plus two sighters (900 & 1000) - 50 minutes
I hope to discuss whether this is the same methodology used at Bisley for TR & MR events with those from that side of the pond.
How does this equate to time allowances at the Worlds?
John
In fact, the shooting time allowed for the remaining individual matches is:
10 plus two sighters (300, 500 & 600) - 35 minutes
15 shots plus two sighters (900 & 1000) - 50 minutes
I hope to discuss whether this is the same methodology used at Bisley for TR & MR events with those from that side of the pond.
How does this equate to time allowances at the Worlds?
John
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Re: Bisley style shooting
johnk wrote:While officiating at the Oceania Games (the shakedown for the Commonwealth Games next year), I have had the opportunity to discover what time allowance is made for pair shooting at that level. Considering the shooter, marking & scoring, they squad on the basis of 1 minute per shot plus an allowance of something in the order of 35%.
In fact, the shooting time allowed for the remaining individual matches is:
10 plus two sighters (300, 500 & 600) - 35 minutes
15 shots plus two sighters (900 & 1000) - 50 minutes
I hope to discuss whether this is the same methodology used at Bisley for TR & MR events with those from that side of the pond.
How does this equate to time allowances at the Worlds?
John
The ICFRA time limits are 1 minute per shot, so if it is a 15 shot match, which is 17 with sighters, then 2 shooters, it is 34 minutes for a 15 shot string. (No extra allowance in F class). The majority in Canada finished in under 15 minutes.
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Re: Bisley style shooting
OK, so whether the reason for string shooting in this country is for the reason I referred to, or whether it is because of historical reasons, I have seen on at least two occasions at the National Queens when it was still held in Canberra, a shooter overcome by the extreme heat while on the firing point. On one of those occasions the shooter was in his scoring stage when overcome by the heat. He did not collapse, he went into fit like state. The shooter had no control of his actions and at one stage there was a loaded rifle waving all over the place, including at other shooters and spectators. Having seen this, I don't want to be laying on the ground for up to 50 minutes (not including the 10 minutes or so of preparation time allowed) in the hot weather we encounter here in Australia. I have no trouble laying on the ground for that period when shooting at Bisley on a "hot for them" 25 degree day.
As I was inferring previously, pair and threesome shooting has health and safety implications in Australia's much hotter climate than in UK's cool/mild climate.
Philip
As I was inferring previously, pair and threesome shooting has health and safety implications in Australia's much hotter climate than in UK's cool/mild climate.
Philip
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Re: Bisley style shooting
Phil,
You've highlighted something that I for one had never considered. As you say F-Class shooters can dress much lighter. For that reason it may be better to look at F-Class only events for warmer times and places, and also think carefully about 2 vs 3 per target, and consider reducing the number of shots. Lower Light in April still looks suitable.
You've highlighted something that I for one had never considered. As you say F-Class shooters can dress much lighter. For that reason it may be better to look at F-Class only events for warmer times and places, and also think carefully about 2 vs 3 per target, and consider reducing the number of shots. Lower Light in April still looks suitable.
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Re: Bisley style shooting
tr has to do what tr has always done.
put tr first.
until now, of necessity, fclass has done the same, i.e. put tr first.
personally i would like to shoot tr, but will not do so due to the issue of shooting in a coat on hot days.
we just have to take the path most suited to the individual.
however, in the bisley issue, the time might have come for the big Y junction to take place.
tr can come for the ride if they want - that would be their choice.
keep safe,
bruce.
put tr first.
until now, of necessity, fclass has done the same, i.e. put tr first.
personally i would like to shoot tr, but will not do so due to the issue of shooting in a coat on hot days.
we just have to take the path most suited to the individual.
however, in the bisley issue, the time might have come for the big Y junction to take place.
tr can come for the ride if they want - that would be their choice.
keep safe,
bruce.
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Re: Bisley style shooting
The way I see it, its upto the shooter to decide how to shoot their application. I can shoot fast but I can also shoot slow. Sometimes shooting fast for a few rounds works and then it can catch you out. Its upto the shooter to choose how to shoot their application, no one else I think. No delay is my vote.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia
308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.
Yanchep, Western Australia
308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.
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Re: Bisley style shooting
AlanF wrote:Phil,
You've highlighted something that I for one had never considered. As you say F-Class shooters can dress much lighter. For that reason it may be better to look at F-Class only events for warmer times and places, and also think carefully about 2 vs 3 per target, and consider reducing the number of shots. Lower Light in April still looks suitable.
South Africa doesn't get hot so they can do bisley no worries
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC
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Re: Bisley style shooting
Tim N wrote:...South Africa doesn't get hot...
I am detecting some verbal irony. And yes it would get hot there, although Bloemfontein is quite elevated.
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Re: Bisley style shooting
AlanF wrote:Tim N wrote:...South Africa doesn't get hot...
I am detecting some verbal irony. And yes it would get hot there, although Bloemfontein is quite elevated.
Since sarcasm is regarded as the lowest form of wit I prefer to go with irony
With heat being a possible safety concern for our TR comrades maybe this could be the catalyst to get covers approved for main events?
We need a pic of someone stirring the pot Alan
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC
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