State Teams

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Matt P
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

State Teams

#1 Postby Matt P » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:44 pm

Hi All
What states could field bigger teams at next years State Teams ??????
I would like to see an increase to 6 or 8 person teams with 2 coaches, the reason for this is two fold, firstly it get more people involved in team shooting and secondly it's a way of "blooding" new coaches which I think we would all agree are lacking and very much needed.
I would also like to see the amount of ranges shot increased, do we really need the practice for most of the first day ???
I would suggest removing the official practice and making the competition 2 days of 4 stages ???

Comments please.
Regards
Matt Paroz

Brad Y
Posts: 2021
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: State Teams

#2 Postby Brad Y » Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:20 pm

Matt- this year we had just enough people nominate to make a team. Next year is a little better, but still I think 5 shooters is plenty and anymore we are going to struggle to have a team. Instead of building numbers would it not be a better idea to try and get all states in and competing with minimum numbers first? Sorry I know the eastern states are capable of producing larger teams but I would be expecting that with the large numbers there will be trials to make sure the best teams are selected. When the sport is at the level where it can be a true national teams with all states/territories having good numbers present in FS, FO and F/TR , then maybe more shooters can be included. Just my opinion anyway.

DaveMc
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: State Teams

#3 Postby DaveMc » Fri Oct 24, 2014 9:52 am

I am surprised there has not been more comments on this so far.

Basically Matt, I know where you are coming from and do agree 100%. I would also like to add that 2(or 3) coach teams are a completely different kettle of fish to 1 coach. Practicing and selecting on 1 coach teams has little relevance (only a few key coach characteristics). You are not practicing/selecting for coaches that can work with other coaches and it is unknown until they get into the bigger team how they can coordinate and work together. It is certainly not unheard of to have a brilliant single coach who is not so good in the larger team because they do not listen to (or can even hear?), trust or work with other coaches (we saw that in a few teams in the US last year even on the world stage)

On the other hand I also agree with Brad 100%. Coming from a small state we struggle to field two full teams rather less full strength teams. With the introduction of FTR we now have to field 3 coaches and 15 shooters plus reserves, captains and managers. A very difficult task for us and even harder for some of the other small states - we are on the recruitment campaign now. To be the "NATIONAL" team event I truly believe you must set the team size and numbers such that we get full (or maximum) participation from most states and it is quite good now.

This however does not stop us trying to organize another event. Perhaps 6 (or 8 ) shooter teams with 3 (or at least 2) coaches? Perhaps composite teams (either by division or by state) could be allowed to encourage participation from the smaller states but not a ratified state level competition.

This can be done at any level and does not necessarily have to be national.

We had a magnificently tough (and enjoyable) challenge at DRA level last weekend against Mackay and Townsville at a truly high level of competition.

Some possible suggestions.
1) Perhaps it is easiest to have say a southern comp (say Vic, NSW and SA and rotate the location on a yearly basis) and a northern one (Qld, NQ and perhaps NT in the future) and maybe WA have their own internal one with FS, FTR and FO mixed teams or they can participate in either of the others by joinging in with some of the locals??? Flexibility will ned to be the key to getting this up and going.
2) alternatively district level matches with mixed FTR, FS and FO teams. 6 shooters.

I see the biggest reason to be breaking in new coaches and team shooters and getting experience in team shooting. If we want to build a strong national team we must have the building blocks.

bartman007
Posts: 791
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:06 pm
Location: Gippsland

Re: State Teams

#4 Postby bartman007 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:58 am

What states could field bigger teams at next years State Teams ??????

I think with the introduction of FTR, it will have the effect of stealing shooters from the other 2 disciplines. Certainly the case in Victoria, so keeping the team size at 5 would seem appropriate for 2015.

I would like to see an increase to 6 or 8 person teams with 2 coaches, the reason for this is two fold, firstly it get more people involved in team shooting and secondly it's a way of "blooding" new coaches which I think we would all agree are lacking and very much needed.

Great idea, however we need to get the numbers in place to support that. At present with 5 shooters / Captain / Coach / Manager / Scorer per team, it seems to increase the logistics for getting everybody interstate. Your proposal would most likely require a second scorer / target / marker / coach, which I feel may be a bit difficult to manage in 2015. But without asking, you would never get the feedback required to make that decision.

I would also like to see the amount of ranges shot increased, do we really need the practice for most of the first day ???

Matt, I don't know what you use the practice sessions for, however we get valuable use out of that time.

I would suggest removing the official practice and making the competition 2 days of 4 stages ???

I'd prefer to keep the practice sessions.

I am surprised there has not been more comments on this so far.

I only just stumbled over this one today, as I had a bit of spare time :wink:

I think we need to have dedicated training days to develop coaches for competition at International level. The trip to NZ is a start, however still limited to 1 coach doing the majority of the work. We don't have to travel OS to do this practice, I think we need to organise this as a tack on event to a Queens as most of us would get to a couple of them a year. I know I'd change my destination if it was known in advance that we are going to hold coaching clinics at say:
1. Vic Queens
2. SA Queens
3. QLD Queens
4. NSW Queens
5. ACT Queens

The clinics should include practical sessions with shooters. We need to be able to get a 3 coach system working with 2 wind coaches and 1 master coach. Without the communications WIRED system in place, we would be only doing part of the job.

We need to be able to educate our newer coaches on what to look for in our shooters, as it is one thing to be able to read wind, and another to determine if a shooter's equipment is not up to scratch (untuned load / faulty scope / pulling shots / flintching).
###

johnk
Posts: 2168
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: State Teams

#5 Postby johnk » Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:43 am

Sorry, I wasn't around my computer when this thread started & I missed it.

Since we started F teams (Bendigo), Qld has never had more than one or two spares in any discipline & isn't likely to this time round. As an indicator, because of the overwhelming nomination list, I'm captaining three teams at Belmont next year.

AlanF
Posts: 6828
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: State Teams

#6 Postby AlanF » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:22 pm

There is an alternative which may satisfy all, except the NRAA.

That is to have 8 shooter teams with 2 wind coaches, 1 main coach etc. whilst making it reasonably practical for all States to be included :

Make the teams mixed F-Class. You could specify maximums of e.g. 3 F-Open, 5 F-Std and 2 F/TR to give some flexibility for States low on numbers. If any States had enough for two teams, so be it, as long as the same rules are used for the mix.

I believe this sort of approach has been suggested before and the NRAA was reluctant to sponsor it, but if it ticks all the boxes for us, then surely F-Class Teams don't have to be run exactly on the TR model.

Barry Davies
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: State Teams

#7 Postby Barry Davies » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:34 pm

Alan,
That sounds like a practical solution -- ( 5 FS, 3 FO, 2 FTR ) certainly in the short term until ALL states can field a minimum number in all three disciplines. I call a minimum number 5.

AlanF
Posts: 6828
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: State Teams

#8 Postby AlanF » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:47 pm

Barry,

I was meaning 8 shooter teams, so the numbers stated for each discipline would be maximums e.g. you could have 2 F-O, 5 F-Std, 1 F/TR to make up the 8.

Alan

Bindi2
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:59 pm

Re: State Teams

#9 Postby Bindi2 » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:53 pm

Not being negative Alan. I sure would not like to be the coach for that mix. Windage and elevation changes would be very hard without individual plot cards for each rifle used and that will take time to correlate but that would mean more practice not a bad thing.

Brad Y
Posts: 2021
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: State Teams

#10 Postby Brad Y » Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:48 pm

Definitely coaching would be interesting, but as mentioned by Dave, this is where multiple coaches in a team could be employed as well. I think 4xFS 4xFO and 2xF/TR could be achieved for now, and some states could easily enter a couple of teams (would have no issue with that). A coach for each discipline making up the coaching team and each nominated discipline coach becomes the head coach as their shooters are on the line while the others assist. It will also help identify coaches that are capable of working in a team environment and being flexible in their roles as well. Alot of emphasis is placed on the shooters in team shooting. Really they are just trigger pullers who pull off the best shot they can under the direction of the coach at the time, its the actual coaches that do alot of the work.

It would be great to see a bit more development of team shooting across the country.


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