BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

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Matt P
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#16 Postby Matt P » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:22 pm

John
I’d take any on your list before the NF Comp.
Matt P

John T
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:42 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#17 Postby John T » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:23 am

Dumfounded.

scott/r
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:22 pm
Location: far north brisbane

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#18 Postby scott/r » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:59 am

Coming from a t/r shooter who occasionally shoots ftr on practise days, why is that Matt P? Is it for personal reasons, as in the recticles are to fine or the turrets aren't to your liking, or have you had dramas with them?
I'm not looking to start a shit fight between you and the other guys, I'm just interested in you're opinion.
Scott

Matt P
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Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#19 Postby Matt P » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:38 am

Number one requirement for a scope is to track everything else is secondary. The NF comp IMO from what I’ve seen and heard simply isn’t good enough, too many failures. Optics are excellent in the ones I’ve looked though but tracking failure rates are too high for me.
YMMV.
Matt P

Wal86
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#20 Postby Wal86 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:45 am

Unfortunately for the new NF competition, Matt is 100% correct..
You couldn't give me a new NF comp..

Im not being bias towards NF either as I own an old 12-42x NXS which has been and still is a very reliable scope.

Cheers

Alan
Last edited by Wal86 on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

Gyro
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#21 Postby Gyro » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:09 am

THE BIG PROBLEM I suggest lads is it's very easy to say this scope or that scope has issues ?

To do so really calls into question all scopes and thier internal mechanisms ?

Are say March scopes mechanically at the highest level and if so how do they differ re how they are designed/built from other 'expensive' scopes ?

Many questions arise and I'd be MOST interested to hear from an actual bona fide scope expert who would know what goes on mechanically inside a rifle scope. The problem would be getting one to talk candidly I suspect ! No disrespect to you Matt P.

Redhawk
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:24 pm

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#22 Postby Redhawk » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:28 am

NF 15-55 rule! The numbers on the mound and sales speaks volumes :)

UL1700
Posts: 103
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#23 Postby UL1700 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:37 am

Good availability, marketing and product placement doesn't necessarily mean best product. I'm running a old nightforce Bench Rest 12x42 and with the fine dot retical it works well for me but if $$s were not an issue I would look beyond NF.

AlanF
Posts: 6791
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#24 Postby AlanF » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:15 am

As is widely known, the Australian FCWC F-Open team was given a substantial number of NF Comp scopes as part of a sponsorship arrangement for the FCWC. As far as I know these scopes were used by all team members and the team won the World Championship. That makes a strong case to say they are a very good scope? Also the NF Comp must surely be the best selling model for F-Class in Australia in recent years, taking over from the BR. All scopes have mechanical problems, and you'll hear more about the ones with the most popular models. When Leupold were most popular, they were the culprits, followed by NF BR.

However, if you think there is a real problem with the Comp, then I won't discourage anyone from discussing it on here. But please, be objective. Declare any vested interest (e.g. what scopes do you have?). If you have first hand knowledge of your own or someone else's NF Comp, be it good or bad, then it would be good to hear about it.

Personally, I have a NF Comp, a Sightron 10-50, a Weaver T24 and a Leupold 6-20. I've had suspicions about the mechanicals in all of them at different times, so much so that I made a testing rig. It has 4 Weaver rails mounted side by side on a plate that can be attached to a rifle. Without going into details, it gives a precise way of detecting changes in hor and vert zero when the rifle is fired. I have never seen more than about .25 MOA in any scope tested, and even this may have been made worse by rounding errors. However I currently have suspicions about the NF Comp because several times recently, I've swapped it out in favour of the Weaver, and scores improved dramatically, so its time for another test. Will report back on that.

Gyro
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#25 Postby Gyro » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:52 am

The problem is Alan, the NF crew may have 'massaged' those select few Comp scopes before handing them over ? Who would know .....

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#26 Postby AlanF » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:56 am

Gyro wrote:The problem is Alan, the NF crew may have 'massaged' those select few Comp scopes before handing them over ? Who would know .....

I would doubt that, but its another reason why its best to get accounts from those without a vested interest, i.e. ordinary shooters who just want a reliable scope, regardless of any brand loyalty. The main thing we're up against is some people will hate to admit they made a bad choice (with any shooting equipment).

williada
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Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#27 Postby williada » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:15 am

Alan, your method is the way to go. Norm thought of building a permanent checking rig on the range at Moe. Tried a variety of scopes over the years hunting with heavy hitters and target rifle. The adjustment mechanisms of all scopes are bound to suffer after a few years under recoil. My view for competition is I treat scopes like barrels. Its time to change if they go off. Send them away for maintenance if need be because I imagine there are few with the expertise and time to service them as we would tinker with our own gear. Not in my bag of tricks.

With the range of quality scopes available, there are two issues for me. The most important is how well they track in comparison and secondly, the comparative clarity at higher magnification under medium mirage conditions. Of course we have to back off the power under heavy mirage. I have a Sightron which tracks beautifully, is crystal clear in good light but tends to whiten the image under mirage conditions at higher power. My old Leuopolds are clearer, as is my Nightforce in comparison, but tracking has become an issue with age with the Leuopolds and the Nightforce. I used Chris's March but found the image looked too dark for my eyes and muscle memory to release the shot on reflex. I was concentrating on seeing rather than observing weather. Have ordered a Delta while 2 scopes are sent away for maintenance. The Sightron which I continue to use at present has been the most reliable for precise windage adjustment. With my other scopes I was always conscious of winding the windage knob past the desired setting then back to it, making sure I was always winding the same way for final settings so as to minimize wear on the threads and consequently backlash as they went off. Team shooting these days has reverted back to centre aim by the shooter and adjustments are made by the coach on the scope. In this scenario, my Sightron out performed and clarity was a minor issue.

However, there was a quirk with my Sightron and I suspect other scopes as they, age with the side focus knob. It is subject to backlash unlike the windage knob, and fine adjustments back and forth trying to get a better picture causes errors. The solution was to wind the side focus all the way out and draw it back slowly in one final movement to a point of best clarity, not past it and back again.

The weight of the scope is a consideration as to whether the scope makes the rig overweight. But for advanced tuning the scope weight, height and position over the bore will affect balance, recoil pattern and tune as well as eye relief. There's a lot in the mix to consider.

BATattack
Posts: 940
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Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#28 Postby BATattack » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:37 am

I personally like the Nightforce comp. There may be other scopes that have INDIVIDUAL features that are better than the NF but I think the NF is a good package.

I like the size and weight, easy to read windage and elevation (not just number size but that the increments are in a incremental order), Clicks are very positive with two different windage knobs supplied, glass is good (Canada was pretty much a mirage range and I found it great to pick up changes ) reticle options. I use an FCR1 and find the calibrated reticle really useful although it is sightly in the fine side for some.

Vortex . . . . .seen several fail myself and for the % represented at events you might want to hold onto that warranty card. The Candian team at he world's were sponsored by vortex yet many went running them . . . . I'll let you decide why. I've only seen one NF fail (others have probably seen more) but it was an old BR that had been on an F class rifle going up and down all it's life and had paint worn off in places and the elevation turret finally gave up at 1100m.

Yep the Aus team had fantastic sponsorship from Nightforce but if I dint have nice things to say I wouldn't bother wasting my time writing the above. I won't be putting my hand up for future teams so there is no ulterior motives in my comments. . . . . . glad the disclaimer us done! haha

willow
Posts: 169
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Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#29 Postby willow » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:10 pm

John T wrote:Hello all.

Is it fair to say that there has been no real challenge to the Nightforce Competition 15-55x52? I think so.

Before we close the book, it may be worth looking (again) at some other particular scopes. After applying two basic requirements; zoom magnification of 50 power or more, and click value of 1/8 MOA; here are five, in alphabetical order.

KAHLES K 1050 10-50x56 MOAK
MARCH 10-60x56 High Master
There is a number of other March scopes which could be considered.
5-50x56
10-60x52
10-60x56
8-80x56
SCHMIDT & BENDER 12-50x56 PM II/P
SIGHTRON S III 10-50x60
VORTEX Golden Eagle HD 15-60x52

As always, all comments about scopes that would be good for F Open are welcome.

Regards,
John T.
25.1.18



Prior to buying a Vortex Golden Eagle, and I did buy the first one available in Australia, I shopped around considerably. Several friends who shoot F-class all run NF Comps, one runs a S&B 12-50x56, another runs a Sightron SV 10-60x56 and another couple of friends run various March models. In short, I had every opportunity to check out the most popular scopes used in F-class. I've previously run a March 5-40x56 (regret selling it) and a Sightron SIII 8-32 which didn't let me down. Took a good close look at the Kahles K1050 as I've previously owned a K624i which was fantastic, but the K1050 was horrible. It was like looking through a fish bowl, terrible FOV and both I and the store that stocked it thought it was broken, so they sent it back to be checked out. It checked out 100% so I ruled that off the list.

I personally wasn't fussed with the NF Comp. Gotten behind them several times and I don't see the fuss. To my eyes the glass on my GEs is slightly clearer, and the scope is easier to get behind, I found the NF a bit more fussy. Others may see differently. Both my GEs track, I've run them from 25 metres from initial boresighting out to 800 metres and if I've dropped a shot, it's because I stuffed the wind/mirage. As a I said earlier though, the March High Master, that's THE scope to have. I've never looked through anything that was so clear and crisp. Whatever the optic nerds that Deon hired did with that new glass formula and lens arrangement definitely worked. With March's reputation for reliability, that's where my coin would be going if I was going up to the 4k mark for a target scope.

Sightron have upped their game for this year by adding ED glass, a new reticle and 1/8 clicks to their SV line, so that scope may start gaining more traction, the fine parallax adjustment on that scope is impressive.

Matt P
Posts: 1290
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: BEST SCOPE FOR F OPEN

#30 Postby Matt P » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:05 pm

All I can say is, by all means say your scope (any scope any brand) is right because you can shoot a 60 with it, but the only way to be sure is by testing. With the testing I've done my statement stands I use and recommend March and NF BR series scopes, I also will only sell March and NF BR series scopes, just as I will only sell/supply Bartlien, Brux, Kreiger and Maddco barrels. If it's something I won't use myself, I don't sell it to my customers. I currently use a March 10-60 x 52, March 5-50 x 56 and 12-42 BR Nightforce. Is that enough disclosure !!!
Matt P


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