Volume sorting cases?

Get or give advice on equipment, reloading and other technical issues.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
DenisA
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Volume sorting cases?

#1 Postby DenisA » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:03 am

G'day All,

I'm interested to learn a little more about volume sorting brass and have a few questions:

1. Who in this forum does it and are the results notable enough to make it a primary step in your reloading process.
2. Can you describe how you do it, do you throw cases out or just shoot lightest to heaviest. Do you weigh every reload or just batch at initial case prep?
3. Is there a liquid to use that's better than water. Eg, metholated spirits, powders or fine sands. Just thinking of the meniscus layer.
4. Is it messy, is there a risk of damaging scales with water?

Thanks..

Brad Y
Posts: 2012
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#2 Postby Brad Y » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:54 am

Where’s that darn housebrick again....

johnk
Posts: 2168
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#3 Postby johnk » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:25 pm

If you're really into more self abuse, try doing a volume check with a nice fine ball powder. It has a number of advantages over water:

    Your cases don't get wet.
    It's cleaner & handier to use.
    Volumetric changes are less discernible so you'll worry less

Best of luck [-o<

KHGS
Posts: 633
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 am
Location: Cowra NSW
Contact:

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#4 Postby KHGS » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:52 pm

johnk wrote:If you're really into more self abuse, try doing a volume check with a nice fine ball powder. It has a number of advantages over water:

    Your cases don't get wet.
    It's cleaner & handier to use.
    Volumetric changes are less discernible so you'll worry less

Best of luck [-o<

I am with John on this one, if you are using good quality brass (who doesn't in competition??) don't bother! I think there are other areas of reloading one can spend time on that will be more rewarding. I am not a fan of cartridge loading, for me it is a chore that is a means to an end, over 50 years of reloading I have weeded out the parts that are not worth the time expended!!!
Keith H. =D> =D> =D>

Barry Davies
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#5 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:48 pm

Denis.
If you are really concerned about volumetric variations, do a simple experiment.
Take 10 lapua cases and test them against 10 Winchester cases.
This is probably the worst variation you will get ---- like some 2 grains ( or 20 tenths )
Compare each batch relative to the other with respect to average speeds --it will give you some idea of how much variation you will get per 1/10 gn.
I did a test one time years ago with 10 Lapua cases ---Identified each case ( numbered) water checked to all the same volume ( as best I could ) Went out to the range and chronographed them -- got the usual 15/20 f/s variation. Went home and reloaded the same cases. with all as identical to the first test as I could.
Chronographed again and got the usual 15/20 f/s variation but the case that gave me the slowest speed first time around, gave me the fastest speed second time around.
So what does all of that prove?
To me it said that volumetric checking of cases had no noticable effect either way and the speed variations were coming from other places ( variations )
You can wear a lot of barrels out trying to eliminate things that do not matter --better to spend the time and money on things that do matter. ( like wind reading for example )
Barry

pjifl
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Innisfail, Far North QLD.

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#6 Postby pjifl » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:51 pm

I do like JKs last good reason to volume sort using a fine ball powder

Namely Volumetric changes are less discernible so you'll worry less

Seriously I feel that weight sorting is worthwhile for extreme range shooting at the top level of competition.

Volume sorting sounds great until you try it in the real world. And if you use a liquid, IT MUST ALL BE ELIMINATED before loading. There are some sorry tales relating to this.

Weight sorting is fast and within the same batch of cases usually improves consistency but one has to be practical.
I have definitely proven by firing alternately the most overweight cases and the most underweight cases that the case weight correlates to velocity very well.
But I had to specially select cases well over and well under to show it conclusively and fire them alternately.
At the very long ranges this will matter.

Here is what I would do for top competition.

1/ Get 100 very good cases to start with. Same batch.
2/ Shoot them once carefully. Preferably all with the same load.
3/ Trim and unify the cases as much as you can.
4/ Quickly weigh a selection searching for the lower and upper limit.
5/ Stretch out a long piece of paper towel on a bench. Mark in grains some lines on the paper dividing it into compartments.
6/ Quickly weigh each case and place in the appropriate spot on the paper. Super accuracy is not needed.
7/ Simply put all in order in a box of 100.
8/ For top competitions, use the first and last 5 for your first sighter. Especially at shorter ranges.
9/ In the event of an important shootoff, or the last critical 1000y range, use from the middle 4 or 5 rows of the box.

It may not be perfect but it is practical.

Peter Smith.

SunnyCoast 5r
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#7 Postby SunnyCoast 5r » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:15 pm

Hey Peter Smith could you explain the ‘shoot them once carefull’ As I have invested in 100 Lap Palma cases for the 308 but have used 60 for load testing (quite a variety of loads from light to heavy)...should I start again with another batch now I have found a consistent load?? Your method above seems to make sense...

pjifl
Posts: 611
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:15 pm
Location: Innisfail, Far North QLD.

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#8 Postby pjifl » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:31 pm

By Shoot them once carefully. Preferably all with the same load. I mean it is wise to use only moderate loads first shot. And all fired the same number of times.
Preferably with zero headspace or loaded a little into the lands such that the projectile pushes the case fully back onto the boltface.
Different loads expand the case differently.

Next hundred you can do this but if you simply work on the ones you have your final weight sort will be fairly good.

If you want to make this 65x47 your main rifle you will almost certainly want another 100 cases. Work from one box to the other and thus keep every case in each box to the same number of similar firings.

SunnyCoast 5r
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Volume sorting cases?

#9 Postby SunnyCoast 5r » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:41 pm

Thanks for that.


Return to “Equipment & Technical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests