Several primers not showing much pin strike

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mike H
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#31 Postby mike H » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:40 pm

Pommy Chris wrote:
Wal86 wrote:Chris

So are you suggesting that this particular batch of cci primers had no yellow compound within the primer itself... if so could you please post a photo of this, better yet one that has been struck with no compound..
This could be a way of getting your situation/findings to the right people..
Cheers
Alan

I dont use these primer as I said. Also there may be compound in but not enough or of poor quality dodgy batch of compound, lots of reasons for the primer not going off. All I know is you are going round in circles on this. There IS an issue with a batch and many ditched them at least until the bad ones are out of circulation. This has become a known issue everyone accepts apart you it seems. Around 20 people at a Queens (unheard of numbers misfires!!) reporting issues and more issues at the Nationals, one poor girl was having difficulty to get anything to go off, replacing primers over night fixed the issue following day. No ifs or buts there is a bad batch of BR primers out there what is so hard to grasp!
Chris

What is hard to grasp,is if the problem is so large,why has the lot number of the alleged bad batches not been identified and the whole distribution chain,from the retailer to the manafacturer been notified.
Mike Halloran.

Pommy Chris
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#32 Postby Pommy Chris » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:55 pm

No company is going to admit fault on this scale. There is a dodgy batch end of story and it has been identified and we all move on what is the issue here?
Chris

mike H
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#33 Postby mike H » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:04 pm

Pommy Chris wrote:No company is going to admit fault on this scale. There is a dodgy batch end of story and it has been identified and we all move on what is the issue here?
Chris

Chris,
He said,you said,they said,she said,this is not evidence,get some solid facts and start at the retailers,demand a replacement of faulty goods or lay down and cop some more.
Mike.

Pommy Chris
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#34 Postby Pommy Chris » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:58 am

mike H wrote:
Pommy Chris wrote:No company is going to admit fault on this scale. There is a dodgy batch end of story and it has been identified and we all move on what is the issue here?
Chris

Chris,
He said,you said,they said,she said,this is not evidence,get some solid facts and start at the retailers,demand a replacement of faulty goods or lay down and cop some more.
Mike.

20 shooters getting misfires at a Queens is evidence enough. Members of the Aus team that I know well and I examined the cases myself who changed primers and then all was well. This is not he said she said, I SAID and I am saying they have an issue. I have examined fire formed neck sized only cases which failed to go off. Changing to another brand of primers fixed the issue in ALL CASES.
By the way being rude is really not on. " Lie down or cop some more" REALLY!!
Chris

Pommy Chris
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#35 Postby Pommy Chris » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:23 am

No desire to argue with anyone here, but I don't understand those who argue every point, and when I say I have check something myself it is kind of insulting actually.
One issue the newer BR primers all seem to have apart the bad ones talked about in this thread is they are made of very thick metal and even with a very small chamber ie only a couple of thou bigger than new brass people are getting misfires even with Barnards. In my humble opinion a primer should work in new brass in a saami spec chamber with your normal load if it doesn't this is faulty in itself this is aside from the batch in question. Yes fire forming is good, but for example I won Raglan a couple of years ago with some new brass, Chewy won a Queens with new brass. If primers wont fire with new brass it is not acceptable.
Chris

ShaneG
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#36 Postby ShaneG » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:00 am

What is the batch number?

jasmay
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#37 Postby jasmay » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:17 am

Alan,

If a primer that has failed to ignite has a good solid strike indicated on it (no different to others that have gone off), wouldn't you say this in itself should be enough to indicate an issue in the primer?

Pommy Chris
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#38 Postby Pommy Chris » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:33 am

ShaneG wrote:What is the batch number?

Ask Mike Hall and others who have had issues.
Chris

Wal86
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#39 Postby Wal86 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:00 pm

Fellas,

If you read my post, I was only trying to help out another shooter, not once in my posts have i thrown rocks, ive only bought up what ive seen/tested/measured before, on the off chance it may help some poor bugger who has been having difficulty and may not know that he could potentially be creating this problem, it may save him both time and money...

One thing I will never comment on is the assumption, i only deal with facts and until I get this "bad batch" of primers, ill continue using them...
The one thing that is alarming is that if such batch is around how come still nobody has posted the batch#..
We all should be informed of this as nobody wants to hear CLICK..

Cheers

Alan

Pommy Chris
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#40 Postby Pommy Chris » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:19 pm

Wal86 wrote:Fellas,

If you read my post, I was only trying to help out another shooter, not once in my posts have i thrown rocks, ive only bought up what ive seen/tested/measured before, on the off chance it may help some poor bugger who has been having difficulty and may not know that he could potentially be creating this problem, it may save him both time and money...

One thing I will never comment on is the assumption, i only deal with facts and until I get this "bad batch" of primers, ill continue using them...
The one thing that is alarming is that if such batch is around how come still nobody has posted the batch#..
We all should be informed of this as nobody wants to hear CLICK..

Cheers

Alan

Alan,
Not everyone reads Ozfclass, but there are many have heard many "clicks". I know BR are a good primer, but I also have seen first hand top shooters having misfires and many with headspace etc correct. I decided after SA Queens were about 20 people put their hands up re having issues with misfires and br primers to leave them alone just to be safe. You have been lucky it seems, but there are some out there which dont go off. Those who had issues will have to give you the batch numbers as as much as I helped guys and gals out I did not have access to the empty primer packets so I have no idea about batch numbers.
Also I say again just because you have not "touched something with your hand" so to speak it is kind of rude to others to totally deny something possible. All I know is when I put a 2 thou shim on the bolt face of a shooter who was getting misfires and tried to close the bolt on a case the bolt would hardly close so no headspace issues at all. Primers has a good mark so were being hit very hard and cases had powder (even if they had no powder the primer would blow the projectile out and jam it in the barrel).. Same cases loaded next day different primers not one misfire. She was not the only one this is a common story..
Chris

Old Trev-39
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#41 Postby Old Trev-39 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:27 pm

On the subject of primers. I have a carton of Federal GM210M in which there are some primers with a yellow compound and not the usual red colour. Lot # 2G220. Has any one seen any of these. The yellow ones are not used.
Cheers,
Trevor.

johnk
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#42 Postby johnk » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:39 pm

Old Trev-39 wrote:On the subject of primers. I have a carton of Federal GM210M in which there are some primers with a yellow compound and not the usual red colour. Lot # 2G220. Has any one seen any of these. The yellow ones are not used.

Not the first time that's happened. Back when I used GMs, I came across a brick that had a mix of two noticeably different primers - cake & anvil colour -mixed.

That was quite a while ago, maybe 15 years, but Federal were quite nonchalant when I emailed them about it.

AlanF
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#43 Postby AlanF » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:41 pm

Pommy Chris wrote:...even if they had no powder the primer would blow the projectile out and jam it in the barrel...

Chris,

I can tell you from personal experience that BR-2s do not necessarily launch the projectiles from the case - maybe I have them seated firmer than most, but over the last 10 years of using BR-2s I can remember several instances of cases with no powder where the primer has definitely ignited, with not enough pressure to expel the bullet, just leaves a few burn marks on the base. My first thoughts were always "!#F%! misfire", but in fact I've never had a misfire that I could blame conclusively on BR-2s. If this low pressure characteristic is unique to BR-2s then its quite likely to account for at least some of the stories about misfires.

Alan

Pommy Chris
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Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#44 Postby Pommy Chris » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:54 pm

AlanF wrote:
Pommy Chris wrote:...even if they had no powder the primer would blow the projectile out and jam it in the barrel...

Chris,

I can tell you from personal experience that BR-2s do not necessarily launch the projectiles from the case - maybe I have them seated firmer than most, but over the last 10 years of using BR-2s I can remember several instances of cases with no powder where the primer has definitely ignited, with not enough pressure to expel the bullet, just leaves a few burn marks on the base. My first thoughts were always "!#F%! misfire", but in fact I've never had a misfire that I could blame conclusively on BR-2s. If this low pressure characteristic is unique to BR-2s then its quite likely to account for at least some of the stories about misfires.

Alan

HI Alan,
Those having issues though were having half or more of there shots not go off (And I witness it) and checked cases after too so not the odd round. I too have only had the odd round ever fail this is different.
Chris

johnk
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Several primers not showing much pin strike

#45 Postby johnk » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:01 pm

Just came across this on another forum. Maybe it's worth checking out:

A bunch of our guys in northern England have just had CCI-450 problems too in 308 Palma brass. It seems that the cups of a recently imported batch are shallow and not all priming tools get them fully seated into the pocket with that desired bit of pressure on the anvil. A friend had some FTFs with them (the new lot) seated as usual with his RCBS hand tool. When he tried again with a Sinclair BR type priming tool, the one that has a single primer hand-seated, no magazine, they were OK, but seated 0.006" deeper than the RCBS seated new lot examples or against cartridges primed with older 450 lots that had worked OK.


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