Odd barrel

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Norm
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Gippsland, Victoria

Odd barrel

#1 Postby Norm » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:03 pm

Hi all,
A mate has recently purchased a new F-Class rifle and has been having trouble sighting it in. So I went down to the range to have a look at what was going on.
At 50 yards I bore sighted the barrel at a large target and then wound the scope turret onto the predicted point of impact as I normally do when first lining up a scope. Now I am pretty good at this and can usually get very close to the point of impact on the first shot. Then wind onto the first shot and fine tune the turret set up as needed. No big job really.

Well the first shot did not hit the target at all. And following shots did not either after double checking everything.
Then we noticed a bullet strike WAY over the target and to the left heaps.

So after using up all the 50 moa of scope adjustment I finally got the bullets hitting the target and onto the aiming mark.
Then I removed the bolt, put the crosshair onto the point of impact and looked down the bore to see where the barrel was pointing.

Not good.... The barrel was pointing way under the target and way off to the right down in the grass. This was at 50 yards on a target that was 600mm x 800mm in size.

I could not believe that a barrel could throw bullets that far from where it seemed to be pointing by looking down the hole. Can anyone explain this? The barrel does look straight.

ratshot
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:34 pm
Location: Corryong L.R.R.C

Re: Odd barrel

#2 Postby ratshot » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:29 pm

is the barrel screwed up tight , had the same thing with a bloke who got a switch barrel br rifle
Last edited by ratshot on Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gyro
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Odd barrel

#3 Postby Gyro » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:52 pm

Put another scope on ?

Longranger
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:49 pm
Location: Queensland

Re: Odd barrel

#4 Postby Longranger » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:49 pm

Sounds like one of those WW2 machine pistols that were designed to shoot around corners. Seriously, something very wrong with the set up. Loose barrel, defective or damaged scope, scope mount threads seriously misaligned etc.

johnk
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Odd barrel

#5 Postby johnk » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:39 pm

A bit more detail about the rig might help - Action, mounts, scope for example.

Gerard
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:36 pm
Location: Rifle Range QLD

Re: Odd barrel

#6 Postby Gerard » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:06 pm

I have heard of this exact thing with an old 303 rifle and the issue was that the barrel was binding on the stock.
Once resolved it behaved normally again.
So with a Target rifle, I would suggest checking that the barrel is free floating (Sliding a piece of paper between the stock and barrel).

Steve N
Posts: 358
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Logan Queensland

Re: Odd barrel

#7 Postby Steve N » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:50 pm

If you can't hit that big target at 50 yards boresighting it then the problem has nothing to do with the scope or mounts. Barrel must be very odd. Does it group okay? Is the crown okay?

AlanF
Posts: 6601
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: Odd barrel

#8 Postby AlanF » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:07 pm

Agree with Steve. I've been swapping barrels in a Barnard for quite a while, and have seen anything up to 10 of 15 minutes of variation for the same scope. My assumption has been that its barrel fitting that causes the variation, but maybe its lack of uniformity in the steel. The forces at work on a barrel when fired must be huge, and who knows what weird effects could be caused.

Brad Y
Posts: 1910
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Odd barrel

#9 Postby Brad Y » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:07 am

It varies barrel to barrel, but I get mine fitted so the highest point of the muzzle is at 12 o'clock so windage is rarely a couple of minutes out per barrel.

Norm
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Gippsland, Victoria

Re: Odd barrel

#10 Postby Norm » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:20 pm

This rifle is a Factory Savage F-Class rig in 6mmBR.
Its shooting Factory Norma 105gn Match ammo.
Scope is a NF Benchrest with NF rings on a Warne 20 MOA rail. All good quality sighting equipment and mounting gear.
No Huge recoil with this rig just point and tap with hardly any movement of the rifle on the rest.
This is a seriously weird thing.

Matt P
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Re: Odd barrel

#11 Postby Matt P » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:31 pm

Norm
A couple of things to consider, firstly it's just a bad barrel. It could also be the recoil lug isn't square (or crap between the surfaces) so when you pull up on the barrel nut the recoil lug it's pulling the barrel "off centre".
Matt P

Gyro
Posts: 140
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:44 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Odd barrel

#12 Postby Gyro » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:40 pm

So if its not a failed scope or mounts ( ????? ) then surely the owner will be taking it back to the seller ?

Norm
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Gippsland, Victoria

Re: Odd barrel

#13 Postby Norm » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:24 pm

Matt I was thinking the same thing but no matter where the barrel is pointing, when you bore sight it that is where the bullets should go,,,, Roughly within reason.
Funny thing is the rifle actually shoots reasonable groups with the Norma ammo.
This is his third rifle, the other two were in 6.5-284 and were sent back for other reasons that I don't want to get into. But the distributor has been very good in their response. Excellent service actually.
So given his run of bad luck and the fact that it seems to shoot ok he is hanging onto it and we have come up with a way to get his NF BR scope set up in a usable fashion by using Burris Zee rings and a different rail.

macguru
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Re: Odd barrel

#14 Postby macguru » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:58 am

This is only a guess but even though you can look down the hole at the target maybe there is a slight bend in the hole over the last few inches that is difficult to see. Surely it would only need to be a few percent off . The end of the hole may not be dead centre with the end nearest your eye, even though you are getting an image of the target ? Other thing is the scope mount holes are off but you are right it does not explain the bore sighting error.

Frank Green
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: Odd barrel

#15 Postby Frank Green » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:22 pm

With out being able to see the rifle and or take it a part here is my thoughts on it.

As previously mentioned....barrel fit which includes the threads, barrel nut and recoil lug. I don't like using factory recoil lugs. Most of them (Remington and Savage) are made from a stamping and nothing is square/true about them. This should be checked. Also how the barrel fits the receiver and the barrel nut. The threads for the nut and receiver are rarely close in size. Add up all of these variables and it can be causing the barrel to fit improperly/point/index on the receiver not in a true center line of the action/bore alignment.

Also the factory Savage barrels are all straightened at the factory by hand (to my knowledge they still do this). On one hand I will say for a factory barrel Savage is pretty good. On the other hand we don't straighten any barrels. This induces stress into the steel for one. Also if not done correctly can leave the bore very crooked per say.

On the Savage rifles I have all of them get a aftermarket/ground recoil lug. All except one (the one rifle I rebuilt as a hunting rifle but did use a aftermarket lug for a spare rifle and it shoots extremely well) are set up with out the barrel nut system. I set them up like you would install a barrel on a Remington. This eliminates the barrel nut and also lets me run a heavier barrel contour on the breech end of the barrel as well.

It could also be something to do with the scope mount and screw holes in the receiver. I've seen rifles with issues in this regards as well but I say your odds of this being the problem are much lower.

I'd take it to a good gunsmith and have him look it over.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels


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