280 AI information Blog

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GSells
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#16 Postby GSells » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:38 pm

williada wrote:Keith is on the money Graham. Speed kills. It comes with a cost. It is best served in a case which will accommodate pressures if you are worried about vertical at 1000 yards and your tuning knowledge is limited. This is where the SAUM is ideal. Its still fun to see what works and what does not and so others can make informed decisions. Its the old trade-off between the journey and the result.


Hello David ! My Knowledge would be even more limited if it was not for this Forum and such tuning Gurus as yourself! Think in part this maybe why Team Au was so dominant at the worlds . For me it mostly is the journey and learning which I'm always trying to learn. 280 Ai gives an option for .308 bolt face and options for other people out there. Also Thanks David for where you have helped over the years , and I know I'm not the only shooter you have helped !

Well it's a lot of work capturing video and uploading it to Utube so this will be it for a while . A few months ago I started videoing my shoots ( club level and a prize meet ) in order to play back to see what went right or wrong .
So this u tube vid was shot yesterday at My club on the Western Downs Qld . Mt Pleasant rifle range ! Should be called Mt Pain ! Lol! Also wrapping up for now the 280 Ai Blog ( which I so wanted to finish and brought me back to The forum) .
So I hope u enjoy sounds . The vision is an iPhone attached to a spotting scope ( celstron 65 mm) .
Again I hope people will carry on with their findings with 280 Ai .
Yours Faithfully Graham Sells .
https://youtu.be/1h6e4SRF8Pw
Ps , 280 Ai is on the Left hand Target . :D

Bigtravoz
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#17 Postby Bigtravoz » Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:25 pm

Silly question but why not just buy 280 Ai brass and be done with it?

GSells
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#18 Postby GSells » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:52 pm

Bigtravoz wrote:Silly question but why not just buy 280 Ai brass and be done with it?


I totally agree and as was stated in the blog , that's what I did . However, sometimes in this country, supply for certain reloading components is near impossible and one has to improvise!

In this case .280 rem brass would suffice!
Regards Graham.

Bigtravoz
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#19 Postby Bigtravoz » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:48 pm

Lol both are probably equally hard to find in oz. necking up from 25-06 might have been a better option than down from 30-06 as the necks would have naturally grown longer as they were expanded, or perhaps 270 brass as it has a bit longer neck than 30-06 to start with. Was just wondering as I am tossing up building a 280 or 280ai myself.

GSells
Posts: 417
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#20 Postby GSells » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:33 pm

Bigtravoz wrote:Lol both are probably equally hard to find in oz. necking up from 25-06 might have been a better option than down from 30-06 as the necks would have naturally grown longer as they were expanded, or perhaps 270 brass as it has a bit longer neck than 30-06 to start with. Was just wondering as I am tossing up building a 280 or 280ai myself.

Big Trav , early days for me , others here on this forum have been campaigning them for years .
I'm very excited about the .280 Ai apart from some teething problems, it has shown some promise . Worth a look ! :wink:

KHGS
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#21 Postby KHGS » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:20 am

Bigtravoz wrote:Lol both are probably equally hard to find in oz. necking up from 25-06 might have been a better option than down from 30-06 as the necks would have naturally grown longer as they were expanded, or perhaps 270 brass as it has a bit longer neck than 30-06 to start with. Was just wondering as I am tossing up building a 280 or 280ai myself.


25/06 will not work any better than 30/06. 270 is an option as the brass is longer.
Keith H.

GSells
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#22 Postby GSells » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:55 pm

Ok , been a while and I'm also having a break at the moment! But last time I had misfires with my brass !

Well I've fixed that by just squaring up the primer pockets with a Sinclair primer tool . I've found what looks like a cracker slow load at around 2860 fps with 57.6 2213sc .
Also I have a faster load at around 2940 fps and 59.0 2213sc .
I'm only club shooting at the moment, so one can only lament of what could have been ! But the cartridge really shows some promise .
Extremely easy to tune ! Happy to shoot at 2860 fps or at 3000 fps if you can find the brass to handle it ! Although, speed kills barrels !

At the low node , the barrel will last a long time . I've learnt a long time ago that speed isn't everything , and my former AU Rosedale team mate and his saum at sub 2800 fps load proved that!

Ok back to jobs around the house and back to partial retirement !

GSells
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#23 Postby GSells » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:00 pm

Been a while , but I’ve come back from my family break from shooting which was good for me . During that time off , I kept developing this cartridge. I have now successfully used 30/60 brass by using my 338 neck die to form a false shoulder . I did up a whole write up on my Personal FB page of how to fireform 30/06 brass and I felt guilty for not contributing to freedom of knowledge. The same knowledge that has been shared freely on this forum that has made me where I’m at now . Yes it’s easy to let the barrel do the talking but my conscience got the better of me .

So here I am back contributing again !! I’ll try and find time to post fireforming with pistol powder sometime for newer shooters that want to go down the MARVELLOUS ACKLEY road !

So I’ve been mucking around with my 338 edge with 2225 or retumbo powder . And getting great results with Berger hybrids 300 gr at about 2750 FPS .
And I had a light bulb moment!

How would 2225 and mag fed primers go in the 280 ai ?? In May this yr I went to find out ? All my close friends that I confide in about tuning said “ 2225 too slow , “ .
So my first load was 63.5 gr , fed mag primers in a 30” barrel netted me 3050fps !! I load the same case 10 times and reduced the load to a known node at around 3000 FPS for 63.1 2225 !!
Of corse I can’t shoot that at Belmont and I have nowhere to test it up here in Qld .
Extreme spread over 10 shots was 11 FPS .

So I reduced the load to 62.3 of 2225 and fed 215’s and have found a nice little node right on the Belmont limit of 2950 FPS , in which it’s really just idling along . I tested back in September in the paddock at 1000 yds on static shotgun clays at a reduced load of 62.1 at 2930 FPS which tested quite well!
First shoot ever at 1000 yds on ETs at Belmont just recently with the 2950 FPS load was quite positive!
I remember with the lil 7/08 ai how people used to say it was rubbish , no good ! Don’t waste your time etc ! I love proving people wrong . Arrogant maybe , competitive absolutely!
So I’ll say that this 280 ai is as good or if not better than a Saum , orings and all !! And I’ll let her do the talking !
Regards Sellsy!!

Tim N
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#24 Postby Tim N » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:01 am

Good to hear you are having success with your 280
Dose it burn clean with that powder or do you get heavy fouling?
Best test will be a Queen’s comp.
Good luck with it
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

GSells
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#25 Postby GSells » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:51 am

Tim N wrote:Good to hear you are having success with your 280
Dose it burn clean with that powder or do you get heavy fouling?
Best test will be a Queen’s comp.
Good luck with it

Hi Tim , no different than 2213sc . It burns pretty clean . I don’t think I can download any lower as pressures seem to be too low and ignition problems I imagine will start to happen. I’m hoping that using a slow powder will extend barrel life . Again time will tell and most definitely will have to put to the test at a Queens or Qld Teams . It would be nice to Win a Queens one day lol!
My may concern , is as the barrel wares , can I keep enough 2225 in the case to keep the speeds up in that node? I’ve heard lots of people say the 280 ai works great at 600yds but fails them at the longs and they have switched to Saums .
I will say that I’m getting about 20FPS ex spread over a shoot but the barrel is positive compensating.a rather magical thing really!
I’m very interested in hearing of your experiences?
Regards G Man lol!

GSells
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#26 Postby GSells » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:12 am

Sorry , but I guess my strategy for a Queens will be shoot my .284 up to 800 yds or 900 yds then switch barrels to the 280 ai for 1000 yds . Switching barrels during a comp is something I’ve been practicing.
And I still need more practicing . It did cost me a opm just recently. But you will never grow just playing it safely. So I may never when a Queens lol!
Seriously, I’ll keep practicing switching barrels , I will get it down pat !

KHGS
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#27 Postby KHGS » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:49 am

GSells wrote:
Tim N wrote:Good to hear you are having success with your 280
Dose it burn clean with that powder or do you get heavy fouling?
Best test will be a Queen’s comp.
Good luck with it

Hi Tim , no different than 2213sc . It burns pretty clean . I don’t think I can download any lower as pressures seem to be too low and ignition problems I imagine will start to happen. I’m hoping that using a slow powder will extend barrel life . Again time will tell and most definitely will have to put to the test at a Queens or Qld Teams . It would be nice to Win a Queens one day lol!
My may concern , is as the barrel wares , can I keep enough 2225 in the case to keep the speeds up in that node? I’ve heard lots of people say the 280 ai works great at 600yds but fails them at the longs and they have switched to Saums .
I will say that I’m getting about 20FPS ex spread over a shoot but the barrel is positive compensating.a rather magical thing really!
I’m very interested in hearing of your experiences?
Regards G Man lol!


Have you heard of "detonation"??? I suggest you research it if you haven't heard about it!!!!! Oh & watch the carbon with loads on the "light" side with slow powders.
Keith H.

GSells
Posts: 417
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 pm

Re: 280 AI information Blog

#28 Postby GSells » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:46 am

KHGS wrote:
GSells wrote:
Tim N wrote:Good to hear you are having success with your 280
Dose it burn clean with that powder or do you get heavy fouling?
Best test will be a Queen’s comp.
Good luck with it

Hi Tim , no different than 2213sc . It burns pretty clean . I don’t think I can download any lower as pressures seem to be too low and ignition problems I imagine will start to happen. I’m hoping that using a slow powder will extend barrel life . Again time will tell and most definitely will have to put to the test at a Queens or Qld Teams . It would be nice to Win a Queens one day lol!
My may concern , is as the barrel wares , can I keep enough 2225 in the case to keep the speeds up in that node? I’ve heard lots of people say the 280 ai works great at 600yds but fails them at the longs and they have switched to Saums .
I will say that I’m getting about 20FPS ex spread over a shoot but the barrel is positive compensating.a rather magical thing really!
I’m very interested in hearing of your experiences?
Regards G Man lol!


Have you heard of "detonation"??? I suggest you research it if you haven't heard about it!!!!! Oh & watch the carbon with loads on the "light" side with slow powders.
Keith H.

Thanks Keith, we are I believe no where near that . There is no smoke . But I’ll keep an eye on carbon . I saw your cleaning series on Fb !

bad_primer
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Location: ACT

Re: 280 AI information Blog

#29 Postby bad_primer » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:46 pm

Graham

I am about to jump in the .280AI journey and finding your thread/blog has been tremendously valueable and heartening to see it come together for you with solid results.
Thanks for taking the time to put all of this down for our reference and enjoyment!

Simmo

KHGS
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Re: 280 AI information Blog

#30 Postby KHGS » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:58 pm

GSells wrote:
KHGS wrote:
GSells wrote:Hi Tim , no different than 2213sc . It burns pretty clean . I don’t think I can download any lower as pressures seem to be too low and ignition problems I imagine will start to happen. I’m hoping that using a slow powder will extend barrel life . Again time will tell and most definitely will have to put to the test at a Queens or Qld Teams . It would be nice to Win a Queens one day lol!
My may concern , is as the barrel wares , can I keep enough 2225 in the case to keep the speeds up in that node? I’ve heard lots of people say the 280 ai works great at 600yds but fails them at the longs and they have switched to Saums .
I will say that I’m getting about 20FPS ex spread over a shoot but the barrel is positive compensating.a rather magical thing really!
I’m very interested in hearing of your experiences?
Regards G Man lol!


Have you heard of "detonation"??? I suggest you research it if you haven't heard about it!!!!! Oh & watch the carbon with loads on the "light" side with slow powders.
Keith H.

Thanks Keith, we are I believe no where near that . There is no smoke . But I’ll keep an eye on carbon . I saw your cleaning series on Fb !


I don't think you are near it yet either......just a word of caution is all. Detonation has never been replicated in a laboratory test & only theories as to how it happens are available to us. However it is widely accepted among ballistic experts (I am not one) that it mostly occurs with lighter loads (lower pressure) of slow burning powder, it happens without warning & is catastrophic. I would not be relying on "smoke" alone as an indicator.I have seen the results of what was most likely a detonation, not pretty to be sure!!!
From a safety prospective I am of the belief that it is better to approach a velocity goal with a powder that yields that velocity within the "normal" pressure range for the cartridge. One must always remember it is not velocity that yields accuracy it is chamber pressure that yields accuracy, velocity with the correct powder choice is only an "indicator" of the correct chamber pressure.
This is not to say that powders that would be considered not ideal for a certain caliber will not work well, but there are checks & balances that must be followed when working outside the square (& inside it too). The 7mm calibers are remarkably flexible as are ADI powders & while this is a good thing it can also lead to disaster if we forget proper practices.
As an example, I have developed a highly accurate load for my 280HI's using lighter (162 to 168 grn bullets) with AR2208 powder. I use this load for fireforming & often shoot match winning scores whilst fireforming with this load. It is much safer to use a light load of faster burning powder than to use a light load of slow burning powder. Remember no matter what powder is in use chamber pressures must be kept within the safe range or the load will be unsafe (read possibly dangerous), meaning that the pressure can be too low just as it can be too high, go out of the range & one is playing with matches in a pine forrest on a hot & windy day. Please proceed with caution!!!!
Keith H.


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