Options for Improved Eye relief on scope

[ajvanwyk]

I am after a couple of ideas on how I would be able to improve on the current eye relief experienced through my scope. Firstly some details, I am free recoiling when I shoot and therefore position myself slightly further away from the stock than someone working the rifle. I have a GRS adjustable stock, Barnard P action and Night force competition scope.

If I move the scope further back, I cannot insert my bolt due to the retaining pin/guide in the Barnard action. I can remove the pin (and have in the past) but found it quite a sloppy experience with the bolt no longer in a guide and able to move around very freely. This also caused instances where I struggled to remove the case as I have pulled the bolt back too far. With he pin in, the bolt handle lines up on about the 11 o'clock mark and then rotate clockwise to about 2 o'clock when inserting it. With the scope in the rear position the bolt handle impacts with the scope and I can therefore not get the bolt in. One option could be to deal with the issue of not being able to remove the bolt by using a breech safety flag, but I am concerned with the issues then in transportation of the firearm and associated scrutiny by our policing community. Would an additional trigger lock be the way to go here ?

Although I can adjust the butt length of the stock, it is currently on the min setting (i.e. all the way in) and still does not provide a shooting position close enough to the end of the scope to have good eye relief. I am shooting a SAUM so there is a bit more padding than what you would see in a 6BR or 223.... and wouldn't really want to be shooting with less than what I have now...

I guess I could deal with a sloppy bolt or cut the butt of the stock but don't really want to be doing that just yet. I am hoping that those in the know have ideas on devices or techniques to help remove the black tunnel experience I have on anything above the minimum magnification.

Cheers,
Albert

[johnk]

You could maybe get some smart smith to build you a bolt handle on the style of the old Mannlicher butter knife handle that passes under the scope - or would it need to turn too much to release?

http://keywordsuggest.org/gallery/770912.html

[6.5x55ai]

Your problem was created very early in the life of Barnards. I have one of Peter Barnard’s very first actions. To release the bolt you pushed a latch, thru a hole in the Central sight mount, using the tip of a round. The bolt them removed in the normal open position on the clock. He then modified (simplified) the release to the system that exists today.

Hardly a very good solution but you could remove the bolt handle to insert the body into the action, nip it up for shooting, take it out to remove bolt at the 11 o’clock position. Would drive me nuts but there you are. You would just need a T allen key on the mound.

I would set the scope at the rear most position which allows bolt removal (which you probably have already tried) and then look at what else you can do to solve/adapt to the issue.

My mate shoots free recoil with his 7mm SAUM/Barnard in a Tru-Flite low rider stock and has no probs with scope eye relief or bolt removal. But that doesn't help you either.

[DenisA]

Albert, I've been free recoiling my rifles with a lot of travel for a while now. I haven't seen anyone allow the same or more free recoil. I started free recoiling this way for my 300WSM and now use it for all cals. Because I allow the rifle to move so much I have to have the scope more forward and long eye relief. That means that I don't fill the scope lens up with the picture and have a very small field of vision through the scope, but that doesn't matter because we only need to see the target. If the parallax is set properly there's no issue shooting this way. As a matter of fact, it feels better in one way, because my head is so far back from the scope, while my eye is in line with the scope, I have a better feel of view down range to watch more flags.

You need a great butt pad though which it sounds like you already have.

Are you uncomfortable shooting with a smaller sight picture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phbd_K0edMs

[6.5x55ai]

DeniseA that is exactly how my mate shoots with his 80x March. Long sight and centres the field of view that he can see in the centre of the ocular. Gets excellent results. I tried it using his rifle and whilst it was weird to start with I could have got used to it. Optically it didn't seem to create any issues.

[DenisA]

I haven't been hit by the scope once. It came close in the early days, tapping my specs a few times but I figured it out early. The trick is to get your shooting arm up and out square which brings your shoulder forward and squares your collar bone out creating a nice pocket to catch the pad earlier than your face catches the scope. If you try and rest on your shooting arm elbow it brings your shoulder down and back too much.

[Matt P]

Phil Mastin was making spring loaded bolt release assemblies for P's, might be worth contacting him.
Matt P

[ajvanwyk]

Phil Mastin was making spring loaded bolt release assemblies for P's, might be worth contacting him.
Matt P

Champion !! Just spoke to Phill and I believe this may fix my issue. Once I receive the device I may actually add a couple of pic's on here for the archives. Thank you Matt

[ajvanwyk]

Albert, I've been free recoiling my rifles with a lot of travel for a while now. I haven't seen anyone allow the same or more free recoil. I started free recoiling this way for my 300WSM and now use it for all cals. Because I allow the rifle to move so much I have to have the scope more forward and long eye relief. That means that I don't fill the scope lens up with the picture and have a very small field of vision through the scope, but that doesn't matter because we only need to see the target. If the parallax is set properly there's no issue shooting this way. As a matter of fact, it feels better in one way, because my head is so far back from the scope, while my eye is in line with the scope, I have a better feel of view down range to watch more flags.

You need a great butt pad though which it sounds like you already have.

Are you uncomfortable shooting with a smaller sight picture?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phbd_K0edMs

Denis is that you under the hat ? You know I've seen that video about a 1,000 times and I am still amazed with how smooth that rifle tracks and more importantly how close it comes to knocking you in the block You've picked my interest now and I think I'll try and see how close I get when firing my rifle.

The time the smaller sight picture get me the most annoyed is when there is a light breeze with heavy mirage. Over the last few months this has been the most prominent and I really struggled to see the small variations in the mirage. When I was able to move closer to the scope it was like someone switching on my eyes and I had greater clarity over the changes.... not that I got them right all the time

Cheers,
Albert

PS: That looks like a very well cultivated Mo

[DenisA]

That is me. The bigger the Mo, the smaller my nose looks

The square arm, raised elbow and shoulder forward is REALLY important in stopping the scope from taking a bite.

You're right of course. The mirage is harder to see with a smaller sight picture but it can be seen effortlessly when you get use to it. It's easy enough to slide the rifle back a little if you need to watch mirage in a fish tail or lighter conditions where the flags aren't so accurate. Then slide the rifle forward prior to the shot.
This year, after some good advice from one of the forum members here, I've been practicing setting up a spotting scope along side my rifle. That way I can choose how far down range I want to watch the mirage. Admittedly the mirage is easier to see through the spotting scope that's setup for a full picture and probably because I have the magnification wound back with a better field of view.

I won't change my technique because the excellent vert. that this technique produces is worth the effort in adapting.

[John23]

Can you buy a set of rings slightly higher to give you the extra clearance?

[ajvanwyk]

Can you buy a set of rings slightly higher to give you the extra clearance?

Hey John, I've through about that but it would mean that the rings need to be raised over an inch, maybe more, so pretty much dismissed that as feasible.

Albert

[Tim N]

You can always shorten the stock to suit.
That's what I've had to do.

[pjifl]

Interesting thread.

I think the best solution has been mentioned - the modified bolt release. But I will add a few comments.

1/ It is technically possible to increase the eyerelief of the scope but that would involve an extra lens over the eyepiece which will take up some space and reduce its magnification. It is hardly a practical approach for most people.

2/ I often use a riflescope with less than full field of view and it never worries me for aiming. Certainly there are no optical accuracy issues.

3/ If you insist on readjusting the riflescope for close mirage, it can be refocused temporarily by holding a lens between the eye and riflescope eyepiece. The X hairs will defocus but the primary focus will move closer just like refocusing for parallax. This is no more disruptive than moving the head to align with a spotting scope but does involve using one hand. It may be of more interest if there is limited room for a spotting scope because of, for example, a computer monitor placed where a spotting scope would be. The sets of close up lenses available for cameras contain some suitable lenses for this and are cheap enough on eBay. They do not need to be of high quality. Although I have shown this to a few people no one seems to use it. Personally, I feel that focusing for 'closer mirage' is of far less value than many think and not usually worth it.

4/ 'Free recoil' is as effective with a very light shoulder touch and a springy recoil pad as leaving a definite gap. The bullet is free before the rifle recoils a few mm - especially with a heavy rifle.

A few ideas here may be of use to fit with your personal preferences.

Peter Smith.

[DenisA]

4/ 'Free recoil' is as effective with a very light shoulder touch and a springy recoil pad as leaving a definite gap. The bullet is free before the rifle recoils a few mm - especially with a heavy rifle.

Hi Peter, I do understand that theory and know that all top shooters perform flawlessly based on that, but in my personal experience, results have differed for what ever reason that I may be missing.

I've been playing with 300WSM's for a quite a few years now. In the earlier days I was having great results shooting small groups in load testing at 100y off a bench, but trying to replicate that in F-class always produced too much vertical.
At one of the Queens in Belmont in 2014 (I Think), I was talking to a F-class shooter on this forum that everyone highly respects. He told me that he had tried to get the 300WSM running with heavy bullets a while before without success. He thought that the recoil was that much more than a regular F-Open cartridge, that the butt was interfering with the shoulder before the bullet exited the barrel.

I realised that when I load tested from a bench I was free recoiling the rifle with good travel, but on the mound with my shoulder just touching the butt pad and recoiling back, I wasn't getting anywhere near the same travel.
I started modifying my technique and ended up with this.

Now my results of group shape and vert at 100y off a bench are replicated consistently when shooting prone.

I find that with this amount of travel the forend doesn't torque. Sometimes I'll have a slightly high shot at 11:00 and I believe I can mostly always attribute this to my shoulder being closer to the butt, reduced travel and the forend torqueing. I find this at 100y too.

I applied the same technique to my .284W and improved the vertical in my shoots instantly. And the same applies, If I introduce my shoulder a little earlier, the forend torques and shots will go high left.

I'm not trying to change or re-invent anything, I only do it because it works for me.