Is the .284 obsolete now?

[Norm]

Denis, there is a bit more of a gap I think.
The 7SAUM has a bit more muzzle blast and recoil when run at the energy limit. Two things that can wear down a shooter over long match.

[jasmay]

Norm, wind is but one factor in the overall decision, that said 8% gain in wind drift isn't to be laughed at when you're back at 1000yds.

Anyone only considering wind as the deciding factor for doing something is missing a lot of key elements to an overall component combination.

[plumbs7]

Graham, I reckon it's almost exactly the same argument as comparing a 7-08 ai running 180's to a .284W running 180's.

You endorsed the 7-08ai fiercely, but even you admitted how much better going to the .284W was.

It's just the next step up. Interestingly, I think the 7mm short magnum varieties are as far as ballistics can be pushed in Australian F-Open. No more steps up.

Yes Denis, live long enough, and with my big mouth at times ! I do live to regret what I say at times ! (Maybe all the time lol!).

In saying that and getting a little of topic ! The 7:08 Ai has a place in Au F open ! I got it to work at a 1000 yds but not good on brass . It really came into its own when I slowed down . The way it shot at Grundy and Northarm was quite impressive! And it's still a cal I plan to use up to 800 yds max !
But yes , taking the .284 for a spin yesterday was really good ! The Bart barrel seems to be very fast at 2910 fps which is fast I know ! So I will back off and redevelop the load to a more sensible speed !
Tim N would be happy! As a plan to keep up with the mags I do have a 280 Ai barrel being cut soon ! With a big knob on it too!

But I'm excited about campaigning with the .284 . So far it has been a joy to tune! No fuss!

[DenisA]

Theres nothing to regret saying Graham. Well done on the effort you put in to the 7-08ai, I think your journey there and the info you shared was awesome. You know I'm all for playing with different cartridges.

[plumbs7]

Theres nothing to regret saying Graham. Well done on the effort you put in to the 7-08ai, I think your journey there and the info you shared was awesome. You know I'm all for playing with different cartridges.

Thanks for the Kind words my friend ! I belive again that over time , that the .284 will hold its own ! But the Saums are the new kid on the block ! And if you can afford run one , it's the go to cal now !

But for the rest of us .... we will just have to work a little harder I guess!

In my opinion, the only advantage the saum has over the .284 has less vertical in choppy conditions at the longs . The 8% can be made up with skill and a bit of luck helps too lol! Again the target will tell the story!
Saum v .284's let's see who prevails !

[ben_g]

We recently had a NSW teams practice at 900 and 1000yards.

Besides one 284shehane we are using either SAUM or straight 284win

Under coached conditions the 284's seemed to be holding better vertical than the SAUM. Whether that be because the 284 is easier to handle or that the SAUM is a little more temperamental to tune I don't know.

We also had a couple of individual matches over the weekend which presented tricky switching winds. The honours were shared between the two cartridges, it really comes down to the shooter.

I have only been shooting open for three or four years and this is my first 284win barrel, I dipped my toe in with the easy to tune and shoot 6.5x47L which I love to shoot.

I have found the 284 to be dead easy to tune with what appears to be a wide accuracy node. I am only using 180gr Berger VLD hunting pills with 50.7gr or 2209. This load is holding sub x-ring elevation at 900 yards and is also capable of shooting high centre counts at 300 and 500yards.

It is an easy calibre to shoot with mild recoil, however I have noticed that it does jump a bit more off target between shots and requires a bit more disciplined technique than the 6.5mm
I am still coming to grips with my technique and if I am not concentrating 100% I drop the occasional low shot which is totally shooter error.

I think for midrange prize shoots I would still use the 6.5 because when the conditions are good you can plunder the x-ring, and plunder it fast!! But for longs and for queens I think I will probably only be bringing the 284.

It's that mix of easy to tune, mild to shoot and great ballistics that makes it the winner. The SAUM while it has incrementally better ballistics is that little bit harder to shoot consistently well, but if you can do it.........

[Norm]

Here are some numbers to contemplate.
The top 10 average score on day 3 of the 2015 and 2016 Vic Queens. i.e. 900 and 1000 yard agg. Longs rounded to the nearest whole point

F.Standard 108
FTR 105
F-Open 110

What does this prove? I'm not really sure but it seems that the quality of the shooters in F-Standard must be excellent given the ballistic handicap that they have over the predominately 7mm shooters in F-Open.
The difficulty of handling the heavier recoil of an FTR rig might explain the lower scores in this class when on ballistics alone they should score higher? Something that 7mm SAUM users might consider.

There is suppose to be a big difference in ballistics between a .308 and what most shooters use in F-Open but in practice the difference in scores obtained by the best shooters in each class are not as great you would expect.

You might pick up a couple of extra points at the longs by switching from a .284 to a 7SAUM but chances are you won't.

[jasmay]

I love stats, you can make them do wonderful things.

Here is a look at 2016 in a different way, top 5 average from each discipline.

FS (B) 108
FS (A) 110.4
FO 111.6
FTR 110.4

So I am exactly with you norm, what does it tell us?

Maybe FTR still being in its infancy has most of its shooters on a learning curve with light rifles recoilng heavier and people still finding their optimum projectile.

Maybe FS shooters have the experience edge.

Maybe FO shooters are kidding themselves with ballistics?

Even B grade shooters a well within striking distance based on their average.

I think looking at these sorts of stats doesn't tell a great deal, if you want to assess a rifles performance you have to do so on that rifles merits alone, not with a different human factor behind each one.

[johnk]

I think stats are of paramount importance. If it wasn't for stats, we'd be arguing about BS.

[ajvanwyk]

I'm a SAUM shooter and can't see myself changing soon. However, to bring the conversations back on topic, I am attaching two targets from a recent coached session. The First is the 284 and the second the SAUM. I think you'll see that the 284 is far from obsolete.

People naturally think of the SAUM's and WSM's as the engines that can drive those 180's with enough oomph to tap into any last grain of BC. What I am seeing more of though is that other manufactures are producing even higher BC rounds that don't need a SAUM to drive them.... Given that paradigm, I think the trusty workhorse will have many more years ahead of it.

[Brad Y]

I don't think obsolete is the correct word but it does seem that the SAUM is the new cartridge in favour, mainly I believe due to it being about as large as you can go before range energy restrictions will affect you. Plus stock design, recoil management devices, and awareness of torque and recoil on the shooters behalf is always being pushed to new limits. Years ago people were struggling with larger cals, now they are very easy to shoot. When someone tries something bigger it only takes a few good results to get others following suit not wanting to get left behind. The 284 and its variations is always going to be competitive with a good driver and it will take the SAUM a long time to build a trophy cabinet as large as the 284 enjoys.

[plumbs7]

Sorry ! Looks like I've become a compulsive oz forum liker lol! I'm enjoying peoples contribution and thoughts , which are very pertinent to the subject! Thanks

[DenisA]

Running a .284W and 180's at 2900 - 2960 fps, i reckon you'd be lucky to get 5 firings from a set of cases. Over a 1500 round barrel life, that's 3 box's. If it's the usual Lapua, that's $200 a box. $600! More if you get more barrel life. Id rather have brass that lasted longer and put that money into fresh barrels, because accuracy does degrade with age. The SAUM's are only running a few more grains than a .284W to be under the energy limit.
Also, if your like a lot of us and like to give your cases the works, then theres more time spent prepping all that .284W brass.

Ultimately the answer to the question has to depend on whether you want to run the 180's as fast as accurately possible.

Which cartridge is the FCWC team using? Why?

[Brad Y]

Less firings over 2900 if your using 2209. I'm starting to throw them after 6 firings at 2870 in a shehane. Last box of cases I bought was 210 dollars. Batch them out, cull a few that don't conform with batching process and it gets expensive for sure. Another reason I switched to using the 168's in the shehane from 300-600 so I don't burn through as many cases. SAUM should be ready by June

[macguru]

The Norma SAUM brass will give you alot more than 6 firings. I dont know how many because the first cases I was bumping too much and they still lasted at least twice that long, more like 16+ firings (all the first barrel and a bit of the second) i think. I think the SAUM is harder to tune and the Norma brass is not as consistent as the Lapua brass, I dont know if thats the reason... but at least the primer pockets dont expand, at the pressures I am using (low 29xx fps)