Bullet sorting-what really matters?

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Tim N
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#1 Postby Tim N » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:22 pm

Hi All,
I'm interested to know what people do on this topic.
Up till recently my bullet sorting has been to tip them all for two reasons:
1. Some ballistic improvement
2. To make sure there's no 168s in with the 180s.
And that's about it.
So before venturing into Archimedes bath tub experience(Hope I got that right :) )with the projectiles, lets hear what you think matters most.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

johnk
Posts: 2211
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#2 Postby johnk » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:56 pm

I've always been an acolyte of the Saint of Least Possible Work, so I buy Bergers - as many of the same batch as I can afford at the time

Then, for Match rifle, I meplat them on my Wilson lathe with my Whidden meplatting die & sort them according to appearance of the tip. Those that cut "adequately" with the minimum cutter meplat setting for that bullet go into one batch & the rest I give a more aggressive tip job, keeping the "adequates" in the second batch & the rest into barrel runner inners & barrel warmers. I point each batch separately, mildly, adjusting the die for each batch.

I've found a close enough correlation for me between eyeballed selection & base to ogive length for me not to bother to do the latter any more.

I spent the full day of a test match weighing a couple of thousand 210s pre prep to conclude that I would have been better off sucking ales like my brother out at the Gabba.

DenisA
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#3 Postby DenisA » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:17 pm

I like to:
1. Purchase a large quantity of the same batch number
1.5. Coat bullets
1.75 Wonder if I should have done that
2. Uniform OAL by trimming to the average length of that batch
3. Weight sort
4. Run all my bullets through a bullet body uniforming die
5. Point ogives for uniformity not pointiness
6. Apologise for B.S'ing everyone about step 4
7. Remain calm when everyone with unsorted, unmolested bullets keep kicking my ass.

shooter mcreid
Posts: 322
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:26 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#4 Postby shooter mcreid » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:34 pm

thanks dennis, i appreciated the read!
I like to purchase a large amount of the same batch, sort by base to ogive and then by weight.
I know this is extreme and probably only really helps my mental game or maybe the very longs but queens are won and lost
at the 1k line.

Steve N
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Gippsland Victoria.

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#5 Postby Steve N » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:53 pm

With Bergers same as Denis up to 1.5.
Then sort by base to tip length into batches of 5 thou.

jasmay
Posts: 1293
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#6 Postby jasmay » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:10 pm

1: Big quantities of one batch
2: Coat
3: Sort by Length
4: Shoot

Just bought a Wilson pointer, so plan to experiment with this.

Barry Davies
Posts: 1384
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#7 Postby Barry Davies » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:31 pm

For what it's worth.
I had a batch of projectiles which I sorted to within one thou base to ogive.
Loaded and seated to my required seating depth and then checked base of case to ogive after seating. Horrors --there was 10 thou difference between some.
To cut a long story short the projectiles varied in diameter along the ogive so that the die seater contacted in a different place relative to the case base thus giving variations in seating.
In other words the ogive shape varied and I guess as a result so did the BC.
Never did shoot them one against the other for comparison, but now have two ogive gauges.
Begs the question -- how far do you carry this measuring business?
At what distance do these variations start to show up?

Tim N
Posts: 1337
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#8 Postby Tim N » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:06 pm

Hey Dennis,
If you start making the item in step 4 they should sell like hot cakes, (not sure if I've bought hot cakes before)
Barry, your last question is probably the one I'm asking, for some proven data.
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

johnk
Posts: 2211
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#9 Postby johnk » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:23 pm

Tim N wrote:If you start making the item in step 4 they should sell like hot cakes

Got several of them for cast lead bullets.

Brad Y
Posts: 2181
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#10 Postby Brad Y » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:59 pm

Might as well continue the trend

Buy bullets
Get everything out to sort bullets
Get distracted by kids
Get distracted by wife
Get distracted by beer
Wake up late for the range and have to load flat out before leaving
Get to range
Shoot bullets
Wonder if I should sort them next time...

DenisA
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#11 Postby DenisA » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:37 pm

Brad Y wrote:Might as well continue the trend

Buy bullets
Get everything out to sort bullets
Get distracted by kids
Get distracted by wife
Get distracted by beer
Wake up late for the range and have to load flat out before leaving
Get to range
Shoot bullets
Wonder if I should sort them next time...



:lol: =D>

Tim N
Posts: 1337
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#12 Postby Tim N » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:32 pm

None of this is helping [-X
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

Singo85
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:04 am
Location: NSW

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#13 Postby Singo85 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:10 pm

Tim,

Why sort bullets when you can sort primers by weight diameter, charge colour etc.

Produces much better results.
Cheers
Michael Singleton

BRETT B
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:37 pm
Location: PERTH

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#14 Postby BRETT B » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:46 pm

I have pointed bullets , sorted by base to ogive and OAL of projectile but could never tell if it actually made a difference.
I now have a Silver Mountain Target system which has a chronograph at the target face. Recent testing has shown it to be quite accurate so I now plan to test pointed, un pointed and bullets batched to OAL to see what ES I get through the Target. It should also show how much BC is increased by pointing with average speed through the target face at long range.
BRETT BUNYAN F CLASS OPEN SHOOTER W.A.

DenisA
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Re: Bullet sorting-what really matters?

#15 Postby DenisA » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:53 pm

Tim, sorry about the jest, but my post is mostly serious.

I've thought about this topic a lot in the past and read so many different opinions on it.

I figure that if we put so much time and effort in to uniforming internal ballistics, why not put the same amount in to uniforming external ballistics. It seems naïve that we would precisely tune, prepare and assemble primer, brass and powder only to finalise it with seating an assumption. Once the bullet has left the muzzle, the only thing we can control through all the variables of the environment is how similar one bullet is to the last.

Personally I believe that weight sorting is the most important thing. If for nothing else, to make sure that there isn't something like a 168gn pill in the 180's. I haven't come across this yet, but I've heard it happen lots of times. At my level of shooting it wouldn't matter, but at the pointy end, 1 point dropped can lose a Queens. I have come across many Berger bullets in all calibres that were 2gn +/- of their spec.

Everything else I do in bullet uniforming is because I feel better doing it and I don't want to become relaxed and negligent in my reloading. I prefer to be on the mound knowing I've done everything I can up until that point.

Having said all that, I'm fairly convinced that what I do is mostly unnecessary because I know some great shooters, always with runs on the board, who seat bullets straight from the box.................. Well that's what they've told me anyway.


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