Starting loads for a 284win

[ben_g]

G'day guys, long time lurker first time poster.

I have been shooting F-open for a bit over 2 years now primarily just for fun at my local club and the occasional local prize meeting. I have got my 6.5x47L humming quite nicely now with possibles scores finally coming regularly.

I have decided I want to get a little more serious and attend a few Queens in the next 12 months or so and as such have a 7mm barrel with my gunsmith waiting to be chambered in straight 284win

I have a selection of projectiles to initially try ........ Sierra 175gr, Sierra 180gr and Berger 180gr Hybrids
I have a good supply of 2209
The barrel is a 9twist Benchmark going on a Barnard action.

If anyone could give me somewhere to start with these three bullets that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Ben.

[saum2]

Ben, with 2209 start with 50.2 and work up in .2gn.
Don't worry about Sierra 183's as they require at least a 8.5T barrel. Try the Sierra 175's first or if you have some 168gn Bergers to "run in" your brass from new. My Benchmark liked Hybrids jumped a lot.
You really have other important things to worry about first though. Are you going for "No turn" chamber or are you turning necks. Also throat length? Gunsmith needs this info first.
Geoff

[6602steven]

My most accurate load with 180gr Hybrids is 48.5gr but another node at 49.5gr of 2209. went up to 50.5 but didn't reach the next node

Steve

[Old Trev-39]

Hi Ben,
I have been shooting the 175 &180 Sierras for a few years now. Maddco 9T barrel 29" long on Barnard action. Have had good results with 52.2- 2209 @ 2860 fps with the 175 & 51.2 behind the 180 for 2820 fps both wit .020 jump. Shoot fairly consistently groups under the 10' mark at the1000 yd. benchrest comps.
Cheers,
Trevor.

[Old Trev-39]

Hi Ben,
Oops!!!!!!!!, that should read 10" groups.
Cheers,
Trevor.

[ben_g]

Thanks guys.

Reamer is throated for the Berger VLDS.

It will be a no neck turn chamber.

[AlanF]

SMK 175s are an under-rated projectile in my opinion. They have a respectable BC, and can be very accurate. I had a hundred leftovers and a couple of weeks back decided to use them for some testing of annealed vs unannealed cases, and achieved one of my best ever 900yd scores of 60.8. So I immediately ordered 500 SMKs at $70 per 100 (try getting Bergers for that). BTW I couldn't replicate the performance the following week, possibly a cleaning issue, but I've no doubts about the quality of the SMKs.

[bobeager]

Allan, What was the outcome of the annealing test? I am trying to get my Club to purchase an AMP Machine, but having purchased Bryan Litz's latest book seeking justification for purchase, I read that he finds no correlation between annealing and non annealing in his limited testing to date.

[Pommy Chris]

SMK 175s are an under-rated projectile in my opinion. They have a respectable BC, and can be very accurate. I had a hundred leftovers and a couple of weeks back decided to use them for some testing of annealed vs unannealed cases, and achieved one of my best ever 900yd scores of 60.8. So I immediately ordered 500 SMKs at $70 per 100 (try getting Bergers for that). BTW I couldn't replicate the performance the following week, possibly a cleaning issue, but I've no doubts about the quality of the SMKs.

Which shot the best the annealed or the unannealed? Annealing seems to be the new black right now (everyone is trying it) so I am curious or your results.
Chris

[PhilD]

I just reloaded my first batch of annealed cases last night, no idea how they will shoot, but, they certainly had a way higher level of sizing and seating tension consistency.

At the end of the day, consistency is what this game is all about.

P

[Pommy Chris]

I just reloaded my first batch of annealed cases last night, no idea how they will shoot, but, they certainly had a way higher level of sizing and seating tension consistency.

At the end of the day, consistency is what this game is all about.

P

Sorry to the OP for off topic.. Re the annealed let me know how they go I am curious. I never really believed tiny differences in neck tension would make any difference, I have actually switched to new brass halfway through a range as I had not intended to stay for the extra range and I ran of of good ammo and followed an X with another X one new and one old brass. That said you are right if there is any genuine benefit even if it is small it is worth doing, but it would be good to see some real tests re benefits.
Chris

[AlanF]

Regarding annealing, the jury is still out for me. I've done two quite unscientific tests (mainly because of small sample) with mixed results. I had some brass which had done about 8 firings, which I believe the annealing proponents say would benefit from annealing. So I annealed 12 cases in a clubmate's AMP using the suggested settings from the manufacturers. I then did some velocity testing at home using a Magnetospeed and found that the annealed brass gave a smaller SD (also ES but I prefer SD) than 12 un-annealed cases from the same batch. The difference wasn't great however, and given the small sample sizes, I couldn't claim a definite advantage for annealing. Then I took the same cases to the range, without any further annealing, and shot two 10+2 applications at 900yds. Conditions were good. Unfortunately the chrono decided to misbehave so I didn't use it. For the first application I used the recently annealed brass, and scored a 59.5, with the lost shot high. Then I got the 60.8 with the un-annealed brass! Again the number of shots is not sufficient for much statistical certainty. What I can say with some certainty is that there was no dramatic advantage from annealing, at least for the way I do things. There is a possible reason why I don't get much (any?) advantage from annealing, which is moly coating bullets. Even with old work-hardened necks I don't detect much if any variation in required seating force (using an arbour press). I believe the lubricating affect when seating is an oft overlooked advantage of molying.

So my attitude will continue to be wait and see. I don't neck turn, don't clean inside case bodies, and don't anneal. They all require investments of time and money, and unless the evidence of benefits is clear cut, then I won't add them to the process. On the other hand molying is something that most don't bother with, but I am sticking with that. In F-Open (and other F-Classes) the accuracy bar is continuing to be raised so things like annealing may become a "must have" at some stage.

And one thing I'll say about the AMP annealer is that if you have the $ and not much time, then it is very easy and quick to operate, so it wouldn't be out of the question to anneal every firing.

Alan

[PhilD]

Apologies to the OP as well for the hijack....

One reason I am very interested in the AMP is the theoretical increase in case life. If I can double the life of my cases, the AMP has well and truly paid for itself.

Phil

[Pommy Chris]

Regarding annealing, the jury is still out for me. I've done two quite unscientific tests (mainly because of small sample) with mixed results. I had some brass which had done about 8 firings, which I believe the annealing proponents say would benefit from annealing. So I annealed 12 cases in a clubmate's AMP using the suggested settings from the manufacturers. I then did some velocity testing at home using a Magnetospeed and found that the annealed brass gave a smaller SD (also ES but I prefer SD) than 12 un-annealed cases from the same batch. The difference wasn't great however, and given the small sample sizes, I couldn't claim a definite advantage for annealing. Then I took the same cases to the range, without any further annealing, and shot two 10+2 applications at 900yds. Conditions were good. Unfortunately the chrono decided to misbehave so I didn't use it. For the first application I used the recently annealed brass, and scored a 59.5, with the lost shot high. Then I got the 60.8 with the un-annealed brass! Again the number of shots is not sufficient for much statistical certainty. What I can say with some certainty is that there was no dramatic advantage from annealing, at least for the way I do things. There is a possible reason why I don't get much (any?) advantage from annealing, which is moly coating bullets. Even with old work-hardened necks I don't detect much if any variation in required seating force (using an arbour press). I believe the lubricating affect when seating is an oft overlooked advantage of molying.

So my attitude will continue to be wait and see. I don't neck turn, don't clean inside case bodies, and don't anneal. They all require investments of time and money, and unless the evidence of benefits is clear cut, then I won't add them to the process. On the other hand molying is something that most don't bother with, but I am sticking with that. In F-Open (and other F-Classes) the accuracy bar is continuing to be raised so things like annealing may become a "must have" at some stage.

And one thing I'll say about the AMP annealer is that if you have the $ and not much time, then it is very easy and quick to operate, so it wouldn't be out of the question to anneal every firing.

Alan

Thanks Alan, I moly too and I thought the same about moly and neck tension. I will wait a while I think.
Cheers
Chris

[ben_g]

Alan

Thanks for the info on the 175gr SMK, did you use 2209 with them?? What minimum charge weight would you start with in a Barnard action?

Do you find sorting of the sierra's by bearing length necessary?

Sierra's in 175 and 180gr seem to be a bit easier to come by than Bergers. I am hoping to find a good load with either of them.

Dies turned up today, brass is here, now the wait for the barrel to be done

For my 6.5x47Lap I anneal every 4 or 5 firings and find the seating depth force to be more consistent in feel.