Weight sorting primers to improve SD

[plumbs7]

Hi all! Does anyone weight sort their primers and have they proven that it improves or halves the Standard Deviation of their loads? And is it worth doing ? Regards Graham.

[Matt P]

Absolutely !!!
I find sorting to 3 decimal (0.00? grns) places has netted the best results.

[ShaneG]

I suspect Matt is stirring the pot here??
Graham, I have done it and did not see a measurable result?
Shane

[plumbs7]

Hi Matt and Shane , ok I weight sorted my primers , the results are hard to fathom but I guess like all things it could add up! Mounted the magspeed on did all the loading thingy! Dialled up my spanking new NF scope to 6 Moa for 532 yards and the chrony results are
1-2783
2-2785
3-2794
4-2780
5-2767
6-2774
7-2762
8-2773
9-2774
10-2776
11-2779
12-2799
The low fps shots 2762 and 2767 are caused by where and how I hold my elbow!! I proved it and noticed I had relaxed my elbow outward . Brought back in and the good results were back! The 2799 fps who knows ! Primer maybe!!?? Shane I love the new scope mate too! Awesome !

11 shots at 533 yards and 4 mph 8-00 wind 1/2 min left correction. With 3 pairs of doubles! 1 shot was a sighter on a static shotgun clay. The high shots has to be me and I'll have to work out what am I doing to cause that ! ???changeing positions I guess!
I know I don't have much of a chance with development squad etc ! But I'm pushing myself and am learning heaps like just changing ur position has a huge effect on muzzle velocity and vertical! Loving every minute of it and driving my squad mates crazy !!

Back to the thread ! Not enough shots to call whether weighing primers helps !

[ShaneG]

Hi Graham
Glad you like the scope , mate!
You have to use it on a range at distance to begin to appreciate them.
As compared to the comments from armchair warriors like " my mate has brand xx and it is awesome!"
Cheers
Shane

[pjifl]

I have never weighed primers but would be very interested in good testing of this.

The best test for this is to sort into Lo, Middle and Hi weights.

Load as well as you can alternately from the Lo and Hi ones.

Then fire in order Lo, Hi, Lo, Hi, Lo .............. and measure velocities.

Finally plot the results of V sequentially.

This type of test cancels out many unknown variables and is ideal for investigating case weight, case volume, bullet weight, bullet lengths over critical spots.
It does not require any complex Stats to analyse - the eyeball will tell you all immediately.
Make sure the MS is firmly attached.
I would do this over two 10 shot series but cut out the first and maybe second shots from each series. The graph can be combined to cover both shoots.
I think trying to evaluate this from height on target will be very difficult and could be misleading. You would really need 1000y on a pristine day and no twiddling of the scope knobs.


Peter Smith.

[johnk]

Over the last decade, I've developed an interesting case of arthritis in both thumbs, to the extent that I couldn't seat LR primers with any sort of feel because I am obliged to seat with one thumb atop the other. In desperation, I purchased a K & M micro primer seater (http://kmshooting.com/primer-tools/prim ... gauge.html). This little bugger is more than a tad tedious in operation, because the first step measures the thickness of the primer to be inserted relative to the depth of the primer pocket, which I believe is unique, as all depth adjustable tools I know of are set relative to the forward edge of the rim.

To cut a longish story shorter, immediately I became competent with the tool & developed the necessary degree of patience to seat each LR primer with the recommended .003" measured crush, the spread in all my loads, particularly my match rifle loads dropped to around 10 fps.

I don't weigh primers.

[KHGS]

Hi Matt and Shane , ok I weight sorted my primers , the results are hard to fathom but I guess like all things it could add up! Mounted the magspeed on did all the loading thingy! Dialled up my spanking new NF scope to 6 Moa for 532 yards and the chrony results are
1-2783
2-2785
3-2794
4-2780
5-2767
6-2774
7-2762
8-2773
9-2774
10-2776
11-2779
12-2799
The low fps shots 2762 and 2767 are caused by where and how I hold my elbow!! I proved it and noticed I had relaxed my elbow outward . Brought back in and the good results were back! The 2799 fps who knows ! Primer maybe!!?? Shane I love the new scope mate too! Awesome !

11 shots at 533 yards and 4 mph 8-00 wind 1/2 min left correction. With 3 pairs of doubles! 1 shot was a sighter on a static shotgun clay. The high shots has to be me and I'll have to work out what am I doing to cause that ! ???changeing positions I guess!
I know I don't have much of a chance with development squad etc ! But I'm pushing myself and am learning heaps like just changing ur position has a huge effect on muzzle velocity and vertical! Loving every minute of it and driving my squad mates crazy !!

Back to the thread ! Not enough shots to call whether weighing primers helps !

You obviously have much too much time on your hands!!!
Keith H.

[macguru]

Can you be an APRIL FOOL IN MAY ????

[plumbs7]

Can you be an APRIL FOOL IN MAY ????

Possibly! Thought there maybe some sceptics ( if that's is where the above is coming from) out there so I took a photo from the backstop to the boundary of our property from where I shoot !

The tree line is the boundary! Been training on that 532 yd line since development squad started ! It's just going blind , no flags or spotters ! It took me a bit of courage to have ago at first and was quite amazed I even found a4 sized piece of paper in the middle of the paddock! That's what I mean by pushing myself a little !

Keith My wife would beg to differ on that time thing !

[KHGS]

Can you be an APRIL FOOL IN MAY ????

Possibly! Thought there maybe some sceptics ( if that's is where the above is coming from) out there so I took a photo from the backstop to the boundary of our property from where I shoot !

The tree line is the boundary! Been training on that 532 yd line since development squad started ! It's just going blind , no flags or spotters ! It took me a bit of courage to have ago at first and was quite amazed I even found a4 sized piece of paper in the middle of the paddock! That's what I mean by pushing myself a little !

Keith My wife would beg to differ on that time thing !

I would take note of John K's post! That is what is most important in relation to primers, apart from selecting the primer best suited to your loads.
Keith H.

[plumbs7]

http://youtu.be/8HsdHVLHQwI
Looks pretty good !?? I've also ordered a gem pro 250 scales . Charge master has been good but not good enough anymore !

[RAVEN]

I'm with Matt plumbs7

I also found that if I hold my tongue the right way the SD & ES also come down
considerably raising the BS levels to an absolute crescendo
RB

[williada]

Boys, if the captain of the team does it, you say, "How many would you like Sir? This is irrespective of your personal belief Got to sing the same song in a team.

[plumbs7]

I'm with Matt plumbs7

I also found that if I hold my tongue the right way the SD & ES also come down
considerably raising the BS levels to an absolute crescendo
RB

Yep Ray , I'm with ya too ! Me weighing primers !!??? I never thought I would ! Going back 12 months ago my Son with my old 308 shot a 90.7 @ 800 yds at Bundy! I'm still shocked at that one . Because I assure you that there wasn't any brilliant loading going on there. I thought if my Son wants perfect ammo he can load them himself! Subsequently the loads were straight off the chargemaster immediately after the beep and then capped ! The pills were straight out of the Berger box !

I heard somewhere that Bryan litz said the easiest way to lower your Sd's was to weigh primers . I remember when Cam just before They went to Raton . We were at 800 yds at Dalby and he never got to excited much . But after his first detail he was very happy as he got his extreme spread down to 4 fps ! His and Julie's guns were one of the top scorers over there! So there has to be just more to it than jamming a primer up butt of a case .

I remember when Willaida round Robbin test and positive compensation test came in , people were sceptical at that, maybe even laughed at it! No body is laughing any more ! And is now highly respected up here in SE Qld.
12 shots don't prove anything ! But it did seem to improve ! The craziest thing I found was just moving my shooting elbow and I've done this at a few sessions to prove it ; made a huge difference in fps drop!
It didn't show at 490 m's as the the above target shows . But I've had really good waterline at 1000 yds and then I've dropped into the 5/4 ring and I've believe I may have found the smoking gun !
A few weeks ago I tried the same load 47.4 2209 ( note winter load) as above on my 100 m range . It has a mound that makes you slide down the hillside of the mound and had an sd of 30 over 10 shots and I was wandering wtfiretruck was going on !
I now know it was me sliding down the hill and very inconsistent shoulder pressure and position causing it . Above we had strings of What , 2 fps wasn't it ! So more lessons there. This maybe a great argument for total free recoil! Only thing if it's bigger than a dasher you'll loose up 20-30 fps in velocity! Something my Nigel No mates 7-08 Ai doesn't have a lot to give up!

My goal is for 4 fps spread like Cameron ! So sad I can't ask him how he did it ! The only reason for the BS as mentioned above is pushing myself for Sqad and team ! There is no way I would have convert to Moa ( throw on a miliradians scope and see how easy it is!), or training in the middle of my Cow paddock twice a week or laying on the shed floor for a good 30 mins dry firing . Or torturing my team mates for days in the Thesis of wind shier of frontal headwinds and as to why some of my shots dropped low( poor things , they put up a lot with me ! ) . Or memorising wind scales from 300 yds to 1000 yds from 0-mph -10 mph .
Yes all of the above could be considered BS? And normally I would agree . But I'll be happy if I miss out on the Au team if I have done my absolute best ! I can sit in peace and have a long break from the sport and catch up with all of the thing I've been sacrificing to help others in my squad to succeed! And just be a quiet individual!
I think from now on , I'll let the rifle do the talking ! Thanks for those who offered advice ! It is always greatly appreciated!
Ps , posting the above target wasn't meant to show off! But a huge relief that maybe those o rings and dampeners do work ! And if I can get this thing to replicate it at 1000 yds I just might from 5% chance of making it to %10 chance ! You never know!