Bugger

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wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Bugger

#1 Postby wsftr » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:21 pm

I hate it when one shot ends up out of the group.
Something this load/gun seems to do...urrg. Bit of a head scratcher as to why.
This group is 900 yards
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Last edited by wsftr on Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Barossa_222
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:58 pm
Location: Barossa Valley

Re: Bugger

#2 Postby Barossa_222 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:39 pm

Usually it's the shooter . . . . .

ivan.wilson7
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: Bugger

#3 Postby ivan.wilson7 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:40 pm

Sorry my friend I think your load is fine and your rifle is to, this looks like an operator error. Don't take your last shot for granted and i think your group will only get smaller. I cant remember the number of times I had done the same thing, its still a nice 59.8.

Brad Y
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Bugger

#4 Postby Brad Y » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:14 pm

Used to get similar. Ended up being position related.

johnk
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Location: Brisbane

Re: Bugger

#5 Postby johnk » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:06 am

Brad Y wrote:Used to get similar. Ended up being position related.

You get "excited" with the group that's forming & it lifts your hips off the ground?

bartman007
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Location: Gippsland

Re: Bugger

#6 Postby bartman007 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:07 am

A typical trigger pull shot.

If every shot is the same, then you will eliminate that one. Practise in mental conditioning will fix.
###

wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Bugger

#7 Postby wsftr » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:02 pm

Thanks for the replies..
mmm - could be shooter and position - doesn't happen with my comp guns tho...they might be a little more forgiving than this setup perhaps...(this is just one example from this gun) its not my first "potential" clean at long range so I'm well versed in the mental aspects...don't count, read the wind and send it is my motto...I did get the wind call wrong for sure...that I can live with. I had to wait a minute or so as the wind was building...I sent it a touch too early.
PS - its FTR not TR...from what I understand that would be a classic "trigger pull" issue for TR.

Rich4
Posts: 534
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Location: Chinchilla

Re: Bugger

#8 Postby Rich4 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:24 pm

Trigger pull can still bite over bags, I specialise in buggering up good groups like that

robbo1990
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:21 pm

Re: Bugger

#9 Postby robbo1990 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:39 pm

I had the same issue for months i thought it was my rifle to. Turns out it was me getting excited with the fact that I was on track to shoot a possible

wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Bugger

#10 Postby wsftr » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:02 pm

Brad Y wrote:Used to get similar. Ended up being position related.

what changes did you make?

Brad Y
Posts: 2181
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: Bugger

#11 Postby Brad Y » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:38 pm

I found I was getting more and more hunched up behind the gun during the string. In the end I was gripping hard and jerking trigger. Ultimately changed style of stock to something longer and more user friendly. This was also after I had a fair bit of a break from shooting. My technique needed some attention. Learnt two things- don’t try and the invent the wheel, and don’t stop shooting. This was coming from a year or two before shooting FO. Now trying to be just as competitive in FTR. You could have the hottest shooting gun in FTR but if you can’t drive it right and consistent then your not going to get the results you want. I find it overall a much more challenging discipline to be involved in.

tachyon
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:44 pm

Re: Bugger

#12 Postby tachyon » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:11 am

While it's possibly related to that particular cartridge or environmental factors, it was probably you tensing up on the gun.

The projectile is in the barrel, and the rifle is moving under recoil for about 1.5 msec. While 1.5 msec is not a long time it is enough time for things to change. Consider this @900 yards

IMG_4289 2.PNG


The first 6 shots are a tight group. I then adjusted 2 right and 1 down (1/8 MOA clicks). Yes it should have been only 1/8 right. Anyway shots 7-9 are effectively in the same group as 1-6 allowing for that.

Shot 10 is however considerably lower, and related to me tensing up.

Consider this target shot the week after at short range (500) with heavy mirage and a 15mph fishtailing tailwind but using the same rifle and ammo with a centre hold an no adjustment to the sights.

IMG_4340.PNG


It took a moment to work out why two groups were forming. Because it was such a short-range blaming the ammo or environmental conditions for the vertical was not reasonable (and the LabRadar said the ES was 10). So knowing it was me my observation was that very light "free recoil" type shoulder pressure resulted in higher shots than a firm grip pulling the butt tightly into the shoulder pocket. This was entirely repeatable. Light shoulder pressure -> top group, firm shoulder pressure -> bottom group.

So, my assumption is that the lighter shoulder pressure allows enough muzzle flip to happen while the projectile is still in the barrel that it moves the group. This group movement is quite significant in that, while this rifle is a <1/4 MOA gun, my input can change the point of impact by 1/2 an MOA.

HTH.
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Barossa_222
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Location: Barossa Valley

Re: Bugger

#13 Postby Barossa_222 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Lot's of gripping and jerking in WA FTR I hear . . . . . .

wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Bugger

#14 Postby wsftr » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:57 pm

@tachyon - no doubt hold affects shots...especially when there is a significant difference in technique. Technique on the last shot or trigger pulling using bipods and bags to go from an x to a 6 yip...but to throw it into a solid 5...mmm...not so sure on that one...your first picture illustrates my experience to date on other guns and setups.

wsftr
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:58 pm

Re: Bugger

#15 Postby wsftr » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:20 pm

WP_20160326_001 - Copy.jpg
Here is a 1000 yard group...shot 10 had me really worried, (further analysis showed double grouping which you can see to some extent in this pic)...I tracked it down to seating depth (different gun a few years ago)...its why I don't put odd shots down to shooter technique as a default...odd shots out or double groups can just be a sign that your on the edge of the seating depth node...or technique.
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