F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

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What would you recommend as the best calibre for Queens ranges over 600 yds?

6.5x55AI
9
7%
6.5-284
6
5%
284 Win
49
39%
7 Shehane
8
6%
280AI
12
9%
7 RSAUM
32
25%
7 WSM
2
2%
30-06AI
0
No votes
300 RSAUM
1
1%
300 WSM
8
6%
 
Total votes: 127

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Author
AlanF
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F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#1 Postby AlanF » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:34 am

Note there are 3 polls. This one is for long ranges (over 600 yards). So if you must choose two different calibres to use at a Queens shoot, what would you use at the longs? Please base your choice on what you would recommend to others and I know its hard, but try not to be biased in favour of what you have.

AlanF
Posts: 6613
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#2 Postby AlanF » Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:09 pm

Something I said in an earlier thread and should have included here :

AlanF wrote:It isn't just asking for the most economical, the best theoretical performance, the easiest to load for, the easiest to get components for, or even the best recent performances. Its more of an assessment of all aspects, and what you would recommend for an F-Open shooter on an average budget with a reasonable amount of time on their hands who wants to be competitive at Queens level. It does need to be a proven calibre in Australia, and needs to take into account current realities, including the SSRs, the situation with ME limits, and component shortages etc.


Now here's something new with this poll - you can go back and change your choice. Your former choice will be removed from the count when you do that. So not only can you change it after further thought now, these polls will remain for you to access in future, to change if your opinion changes. Also if new (or old) calibres not in the choices become popular, then I may put them in the list in place of ones without votes. So this can become an ongoing and up to date guide.

BTW it wasn't working initially, so try again now if you want to change.

jondavball
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#3 Postby jondavball » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:19 pm

Not answering the poll question I am afraid since I have no experience in long range shooting but it is something I desperately want to get into. Coincidentally I am at the choose a calibre stage and having been doing a lot of research lately. What I have noticed when looking at European (inc UK) F Class results is that 270 WSM appears far more often than other calibre as the round of choice by those winning competitions. Is there a reason it is not included in the list or used here? I have no practical experience but on paper the 270 looks quite good. Am I wrong?

AlanF
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#4 Postby AlanF » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:52 pm

jondavball wrote:...What I have noticed when looking at European (inc UK) F Class results is that 270 WSM appears far more often than other calibre as the round of choice by those winning competitions...

Are you sure its not 7-270WSM (a 270 necked up to 7mm)? There are very few 270 cal target bullets made, so I can't see it being popular anywhere. 7mm WSMs are popular in the UK, and it wouldn't surprise me if many of them use the 270 WSM brass. The reason that 7 WSMs are more popular there are various - partly because they shoot Bisley style and in generally worse conditions, partly because their muzzle energy limits are more flexible. If you are about to get started in F-Open, and expect to be shooting both short and long ranges, then as the poll indicates, the standard 284 Win is very hard to beat.

jondavball
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#5 Postby jondavball » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:13 pm

yes my mistake it is 7-270 WSM. Thank you for the information and clarification. Thanks also for the suggested calibre of 284 which I will now have a serious look at.

jondavball
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#6 Postby jondavball » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:05 am

Hi Alan,
I popped into my local gun shop today and asked about 284 ammo but was told it was rare and hard to come by. Admittedly its the only place I have asked but is there any truth in what I was told or is it just my local dealer doesn't stock it and has made a generalisation?

I would end up reloading but initially how much would I be looking ta paying for 284 ammo?

Thanks

macguru
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:49 am

Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#7 Postby macguru » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:43 am

You cannot really play the F Open game unless you reload, but you CAN start with an F standard 308 target rifle, probably use Winchester target factory ammo as sold at the clubs, and rechamber later.

The ARE some factory target rounds from Lapua in 6BR, 6.5x55mm but probably hard to get and expensive, compared to handloading. Results can be excellent with lapua factory ammo, however.

**********************

I looked up some prices and for 6mm BR lapua 105gr scenar ammo loaded you would be paying over $3 per shot !!!

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#8 Postby AlanF » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:07 pm

jondavball wrote:Hi Alan,
I popped into my local gun shop today and asked about 284 ammo but was told it was rare and hard to come by. Admittedly its the only place I have asked but is there any truth in what I was told or is it just my local dealer doesn't stock it and has made a generalisation?

I would end up reloading but initially how much would I be looking ta paying for 284 ammo?

Thanks

As MacGuru says, you will probably need to reload from the outset for F-Open. There are a few American companies offering long range target grade ammunition in a few calibres, but I don't know of any doing 284 Winchester. I would strongly recommend that you go to your intended rifle range and talk to the F-Class shooters to get a better understanding of the options. If you're not ready to reload, then as MacGuru suggests, factory loaded 308 target ammunition is available and suitable for beginning in F-Class Standard.

jondavball
Posts: 11
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#9 Postby jondavball » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:46 am

thanks gents, will do

bruce moulds
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#10 Postby bruce moulds » Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:08 pm

i would like to select the 6.5 super lr but it is not on the list.
we have a perpetual trophy in our club for the most centres in the year.
it is really a way to see if fclass shooters get more Xs or tr guys get more Vs.
for years it was Vs that took the trophy, but lately the Xs have taken the day.
the winner mostly used a 6.5 super lr and winds his sights.
this cartridge has become known around here as "the game changer".
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

pjifl
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Location: Innisfail, Far North QLD.

Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#11 Postby pjifl » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:52 pm

I think the transition point to a special rifle for the longs should be based on a distance further than 600y.

700y and 800y (an easy target anyway) can be shot well with a 'shorter range rifle' thus saving the special long range rifle barrel wear and tear.

If 'long range' includes 1000y yards (many ranges cannot cater for longer than 900y) one should recognize that performance really drops noticeably over that extra 100 yards.

I would choose a 6.5 for shorter distances and a 7 RSAUM for the extreme ranges. Having said that, a good 284 in the right hands is hard to beat.

There are so many factors. Some people and newcomers may be better off with a 6mm. But a 6.5 using 123 grain projectiles is mild to shoot and a good substitute and you can choose heavier projectiles for better performance if you wish.

So - I have not answered the question rigidly - and will not vote. But these are my thoughts.

The other thing to consider is how common and easy it is to source excellent cartridge brass and projectiles. I would suggest a fairly standard setup and if good brass is available no neck turn - especially for a beginner. The brass does not need to be an absolutely standard cartridge but needs to be fairly competitive when fireforming to a slightly non standard case if that is your choice.
Like in the event that you lose all your cases because of an aircraft luggage mixup, you can get going again immediately with new cases.

Peter Smith.

bruce moulds
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#12 Postby bruce moulds » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:42 pm

pete,
all your points are good ones.
however it seems your criteria for a long range cartridge is based primarily on ballistics.
i must confess that the 6.5 super lr is behind the 7saum in this area.
however it is much more shootable, a thing i find at my age to be of more importance than it used to be.
it also has better barrel life.
cases formed from winchester 243 brass has proven to be match quality if you batch it, and when you forn the shoulder you adjust headspace to perfectly fit the chamber.
if a no turn neck is used, and you lose your brass in an airport, winchester 243 brass is one of the most available.
back to ballistics.
the super lr holds enough 2209 to drive a 140 gn bullet at around 2900 with reasonable pressure and grear accuracy.
as fclass shooters are learning wind reading, this is not the disadvantage it might at first seem, particularly on ranges where energy limits exist.
ther is another alternative to the super lr that is also way better than the lapua 6.5x 47 in their ability to drive 140 gn bullets.
the 6.5 creedmoor has nearly the capacity of the super lr, and can also hold enough 2209 to do the job with 140s.
cartridges in this class can be shot true free recoil, have little violence, are easy on barrels, and hold vert superbly, giving the widest target possible.
they stay tuned.
keep safe,
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880

http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

Brad Y
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#13 Postby Brad Y » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:44 pm

Goes back to the old argument, a good wind reader with a hot gun wins medals. But after seeing it more and more, the 7's are capable of any accuracy a 6 or 6.5 can produce, and can do it easier in the wind. Take it from someone who comes from a state where shooting 7's has really only just started to take off in the last two years... and if a rifle is built well and weighs to 9.5-10kg the recoil is very mild. The only downside is maintaining tune in the magnums it seems.

pjifl
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#14 Postby pjifl » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:19 am

I will add that I always shoot free recoil. And that includes the 7 SAUM. I point this out because I don't want people to discount the possibility of free recoil with big cartridges.

And I am now forced to shoot what I call the crossover position (no jokes please !)
That is from the left shoulder, left eye but Right Hand on the trigger and left hand on the tiller. This induces far more rifle bounce because of the angle of the shooter's body but with care and a good stock is quite controllable. Would be worse from a bench I suspect.

Having said that, I do have a real soft spot for 6.5s and I do think they are very good for beginners. I never mentioned a cartridge previously because there are now many to choose from. My choice would be heavily influenced by the availability of good brass. My past shooting of a 6.5 has been with a slightly modified Swede. It is a bit overcased but Cases are much cheaper. Anyway I have oodles of brass (some new) and plenty of 139 grain (or equivalent) projectiles and a reamer etc so will not change. Starting from scratch in 6.5 I may look at the Creedmore. I recently saw some out of the box ammo shoot very well in a new Tikka - better than I expected from a commercial package. But to complement asecond heavier rifle maybe the 6x47 makes more sense.

The other thing I hate doing is chopping and changing a lot but may soon go back to a revamped 6.5 barrel for a change.

Agree with Brad that the 7mm can equal the accuracy of 6.5s and 6s. A Saum is inherently a very accurate cartridge. Although the bigger the power, the better the gunsmithing needs be.

Choosing a cartridge should be done based on

1/ Good brass available.
2/ Is the rifle to be used in isolation or is it part of a set of 2 rifles. If two, then a lighter cartridge makes more sense in conjunction with something very heavy.

I doubt that anyone will go away from LR serious Team shooting of 7mms. In any case, the rules dictate that all team shooters are better off with one calibre in case of rifle failures.
And ALL shooting a 7mm is kinder on the coach !

It is all a bit of a compromise. Make sure you enjoy your shooting. And I do understand where Bruce is coming from.

Peter Smith.

KHGS
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Re: F-Open Calibre Poll - Long Range

#15 Postby KHGS » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:18 am

Peter's post contains very well thought out sensible comments, While I do agree with him I am a one gun person. Two guns (different calibers) do not work well for me, other individuals may find the same. I have not voted either as there is no 7mm cartridge listed that matches mine.
Keith H.


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