kg cleaning products

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bruce moulds
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kg cleaning products

#1 Postby bruce moulds » Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:48 am

6.5/284 barrel, approx 1600 rounds.
6' breech end rough & visibly black.
i thought i had a good cleaning regime using butches & jb, & that my barrels were well cleaned. wrong!
copper was never visible at the muzzle after a clean. dry brushing appeared capable of removing most of it, so it couldn't have been too bad. i don't however condone dry brushing.
2 patches of kg carbon remover produced an unbelievable ammount of black, & removed loose stuff. 10 strokes with a bronze brush removed more black.
visual inspection showed no copper, & the bore sparkled like a new pin.
just to be sure, i gave it 10 strokes with the copper solvent. no blue due to no ammonia, so not sure if any came out. it could have already been gone if riding on jacket material.
finally a bit of a polish with the abrasive, which looks a bit like runny j.b., on a patch.
the final result. no visible black in the throat or bore. visible roughness in the throat, but stainless steel colour.
a bore scope is not available so an absolute claim cannot be made, buy i believe i have never cleaned a barrel this well before.
perfect clean is important when running in a barrel.
next sat will indicate how the process affects shooting.
of interest is that hoppes has just released a carbon solvent.
bruce.

littlebang556
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Sweets and Hoppes

#2 Postby littlebang556 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:50 am

Can't go past the old tried and tested for my liking.
Sweets and Hoppes #9 Powder Solvent give me excellent results when used with Tetra Gun's Action Blaster.
But like all things, if your on a good thing, stick to it.

Regards

Rob Alman
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RAVEN
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#3 Postby RAVEN » Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:30 pm

Rob U should read the post on copper solvent at 6br.com blogs

http://www.theriflestore.com

This may change your mind
I also thought I was using a good solvent but the fact are the facts the only way U know if you barrel is really clean is bore scoping
There are some brands of copper solvent that tout to clean out fowling and in the test they had not effect on copper what so ever.
I use the KG as well and I know my barrels are clean :)
KG can also be left to soak in SS barrels with out effecting the steel U cannot say this with some other solvents

littlebang556
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Solvents

#4 Postby littlebang556 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:15 pm

Cheers for the heads up Raven but I am unsure what picture goes with which product.
Having said that, there seems to be quite a difference between various products.
The study, I am sure would have involved cleaning the same barrel (to eliminate different run in techniques) in the same way but it is my belief "and I am not saying I am right" that each of the different solvents require different techniques/soaking times/number of passes/...and finding the right recipe for success is quite often a trial and error.
Even though you say the product I use are inferior to others on the market I do get the chamber & barrel clean with minimal effort and the projectiles that spin down its length reward me often by finding the middle of the target. The only time this was not the case was when, recently I tried a non aggessive copper solvent (that didnt remove fouling) in conjunction with an oiled barrel that was patched out well before shooting.
I would however be interested in hearing stories of what other shooters use with success and good scores.

Regards

Rob Alman
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RAVEN
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#5 Postby RAVEN » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:37 pm

Fair enough Rob the proof will be in the Pud :)

littlebang556
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Solvents

#6 Postby littlebang556 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:55 pm

This extract is from 6mmbr.com and further explains what I was trying to say.

There are as many cleaning methods as there are rifles. And each barrel is different. A hand-lapped Lilja 3-groove will show a fraction of the copper fouling as will a Savage factory tube. Using moly bullets ordinarily reduces fouling considerably, but moly requires a different cleaning method altogether (not covered here). And powder brands make a difference. Accordingly, there is no "one best way" to clean a rifle barrel. But here are some cleaning methods that work well for us, let you get the job done faster, and reduce the amount of wear and tear on your barrel.

Regards

Rob Alman
______________________________
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ned kelly
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cleaning Barrels

#7 Postby ned kelly » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:47 pm

G'Day all,
I've tried hoppes, Shooters Choice etc and all leave some copper in the barrel requiring sweets to remove it completely.
I now use General motors top engine cleaner which is fomulated by the same guy who created Shooters choice. now the ingredients are the same except for a pentrating petroleum product in shooters choice as far as I can make out.
Points to consider:
1 GM TEC is only about $18- per 500ml and readily available from most Holden dealer spare parts section.
2 You must always use a bronze brush or you simply will not remove the carbon/copper deposits
3 I get the very faintest of copper blue from the barrel afterwards with sweets and the barrel cleans up efffortlessly
4 Any barrel regardless on whether you use moly or not will not shoot unless absolutely clean. [see pt 2]
5 On firing the flame produced under pressure is hotter than the melt temperature of the steel so the relative damage to you barrel by a solvent is nothing in comparison to firing a days competition
hope this helps
Cheerio Ned

RAVEN
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#8 Postby RAVEN » Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:40 pm

Hi Ned wouldn't want to leave sweets in my barrel for an extended period
And I try to clean my barrel with the least amount of abrasion i prefer just patches or nylon brush.
Many a throat has been worn by over zealous cleaning or bad technique
Cheers
RB :)

ned kelly
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#9 Postby ned kelly » Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:34 pm

G'Day raven,
thats why I like the GM stuff, its quick and like I said if they aint clean they wont shoot.
GM stuff being quick means less sweets is needed. Dave Kerr put me onto it ages ago but I was reluctant to use it. Keep in mind he's been using it for years and he's been very successful with his 500m fly rifles, so it obviously cannot hurt and the price is right.
Sweets reacts with air and after about 5-10 minutes its basically done, far better to re-apply fresh stuff to keep the reaction going. Either way its a function of time vs reactive agents. As they lose potency [have reacted] it takes longer, so keep it freshly applied for a faster clean up.
I use JB's bore paste as well and all my BR barrels have had no long term ill effects and they seeem to be competitve up to about 2000 round so in F class you should get much longer life.
Cheerio Ned

RAVEN
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#10 Postby RAVEN » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:08 pm

The thing I like about KG is that it is a total cleaning system
KG1 is a carbon remover KG2 is degreaser KG3 is light abrasive in liquid something like JB bore shine KG12 is copper remover water based and KG4 is a lubricant
My brother and I are having some work done by Geoff Grenfell I cleaned my 284 1700rounds old with KG before I sent it my brother cleaned his 284 600 rounds old with Butches when Geoff got them he bore scoped the barrels mine had allot of throat wear and fire cracking so it was looking a bit ruff there was no copper in my barrel but there was in my brothers
Now I think allot of the problem is the carbon has to be removed first then the bore absolutely cleaned of all oil or lubes then the solvent can go to work on the copper.
I used to use butches and it would patch out clean after about 5 patches then I would leave Tetra in it when I patched out to shoot there would be green on the patch so this tells me that the butches was not removing all the copper even though the patch was clean initially :idea:
Cheers
RB :)

littlebang556
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Cleaning

#11 Postby littlebang556 » Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:17 am

This is basically the same as I posted on "getting Omarks to shoot"

Cleaning is with Action Blaster (similar to GM stuff) on a cloth on the end of a piece of dowell with a slot to clean chamber. Then insert rod guide and run 2 patches of action blaster through and 3 dry ones. 1 patch of sweets (lots of it) straight through then a scrub with another sweets patch (lots more) and another (;ots more) straight through...let soak 5 to 10 minutes...bronze brush with sweets (you guessed it...lots more) for about 20 passes in each direction being carefull of the crown...let soak 3 to 5 minutes then 1 dry patch and spray 3 seconds with action blaster...4 dry patches followed by 2 wet patches of hoppes #9 powder solvent (not that there is any fouling left but I DO love the smell of it)...remove rod guide and patch out chamber with dowell again cleaning lugs as you go with a action blaster patch and 3 to 4 more dry patches down the bore and the you are ready for the next dispatch. Then clean brushes and rod guide with action blaster and store in clean bottle or the like.

Many say sweets is is to harsh and should not be left in too long, I agree... but as it would happen it just does not need long to do the job.
Action Blaster, GM stuff and the like are worth thier weight and like sweets and Hoppes #9 powder solvent I use lots of it.

Regards

Rob Alman
______________________________
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ned kelly
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Location: Woodend, Victoria

#12 Postby ned kelly » Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:06 am

G'Day All,
the beauty I find with the GM is that because it is more agressive than the Shooters choice and hoppes [imho] you use less brush strokes and limit the potential damge to the bore from incorrect rod action. This means a quicker clean and less exposure to chemicals. I always try to use surgical gloves to avoid skin contact when I can.
Naturally, no -one in their right mind would clean their rifle without a close fitting bore guide.
Cheerio Ned

XCALIBRE
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Barrel cleaning

#13 Postby XCALIBRE » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:13 am

After using Hoppes and Sweet's to where I think the it's as clean as a whistle, a 50/50 mixture of Kero and Marine engine degreaser on a bronze brush can keep you occupied for the next ten minutes removing all the junk you never knew existed.
F TROOP, SHOOTING F CLASS.

littlebang556
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am

Barrel Cleaning

#14 Postby littlebang556 » Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:38 am

After using Hoppes and Sweet's to where I think the it's as clean as a whistle, a 50/50 mixture of Kero and Marine engine degreaser on a bronze brush can keep you occupied for the next ten minutes removing all the junk you never knew existed.


The likes of Top End Engine Cleaner & Action Blaster go a long way in getting rid of the stubborn stuff.

Here's food for thought though...If so many barrels shoot well after a couple of fouling shots, why do we clean them so well in the first place?
Do we clean for accuracy or barrel life... or both.

My previous barrel (when I was less confussed about cleaning) was retired after shooting a 50.7 at 700 yards and was cleaned with nothing else but Ballistol for the entirity of it's 14000 rounds.

Regards

Rob Alman
______________________________
Fullbore = 5.56mm = 100.20 = smile
A.K.A........THE DREMELATOR
PUT Busselton RIFLE RANGE ON YOUR SHOOTING CALENDAR...THE GOLDEN BULLET...3rd Weekend In May. http://www.busseltonrc.com

bruce moulds
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Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:07 pm

#15 Postby bruce moulds » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:22 am

the thing i was worried about when cleanig a berrel thoroughly was how long it would take to settle down again.
it appears after shooting 2 ranges (1000yd & 400m) that it is no different in my barrel.
ie first sighter a bit low on the clean bore, then pretty much ok.
waterline less thn or equalto the 600 10 ring @ 1000yd, @ about 11/2" at 400m.
these waterlines are an improvement on the same barrel prior to using the KG system.
bruce.


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