"omarks" making them shoot

Get or give advice on equipment, reloading and other technical issues.

Moderator: Mod

Message
Author
mick l
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:37 am
Location: north west vic

#16 Postby mick l » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:31 am

Rob,
That sure is a LOW deviation. :shock:
What would you put this down to? I would love to make ammo that had a 0 deviation,is this just luck or are you holding back on us with your loading data :D
Rob does your "omark" have a take down screw in the "center" of the action somewere?
If so were and do you run three screws or two,and how many footpounds do you pull them down with??
Regards
mick

littlebang556
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am

.223 Deviation or lack there of!

#17 Postby littlebang556 » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:23 am

Mick,

Weighing the projectiles into batches of 0.1gn intervals is just another of the fiddly things that must be done to get the edge over a .308.
A cheap set of scales (around $50) from ebay will do fine for this.
As I have mentioned before, I FL resize everytime as well as being pedantic with cleaning of the flash hole.
I don't know if any petrol residue left over from cleaning cases prior to reloading contribute or not because I have always done this.
As for bolts that hold this baby in place, well I have one at front (in adaptor) and another in the center just forward of the trigger guard bolt whilst the tang end is left floating. I cant give you an in/lb reading for these bolts because I just stick the allen key in a do em up tight.
Although not to do with velocity, I am able to remove my trigger for cleaning in acetone EVERY week without removing the rifle from its bedding-helps with crispness and makes sure that trigger pull remains constant pressure from shot to shot.
A clean barrel is the best place to start if you are trying to reduce your SD.
Ladder testing a load evry time you change a component is also a must even when it is just a new batch of the same stuff you have used for eons.
The right bullet jump for the particular rifle, I find that when up to the lands MV can be quite erratic.
Hope this helps

Regards

Rob Alman
______________________________
Fullbore = 5.56mm = 100.20 = smile
A.K.A........THE DREMELATOR
PUT Busselton RIFLE RANGE ON YOUR SHOOTING CALENDAR...THE GOLDEN BULLET...3rd Weekend In May. http://www.busseltonrc.com

Barry R
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:01 pm
Location: Mallee

Seating depth vagaries

#18 Postby Barry R » Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:21 am

Lynn Otto wrote:Barry

I have found that seating depth is very dependant on the particular rifle. My old 223 would not shoot unless it was seated in, 20thou from memory, my technical advisor is currently at work, but my new 223 will not shoot unless it is out of the lands and has a jump.

Lynn


It's the final 'fine tuning' isn't it Lynn?
If only rifle chambers and barrels were 'standard' like everything else in life........hang on........I could have that bit about life wrong.......hmmmm.....

Lynn Otto
Posts: 1121
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: SA

#19 Postby Lynn Otto » Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:02 am

:lol: :lol: LOL Barry, thank goodness everything in life isn't "standard"!
Actually on reading that again I realise I had it back to front anyway, the original 223 was the one that preferred the jump, just as well really since it currently has a jump of about 50-60 thou due to throat erosion, confounded thing still shoots brilliantly though. In fact I'm loath to put a new barrel on it as I know this will upset an accidentally perfect (or at least accurate) combination.

Really it comes down to doing everything humanly possible to build a good rifle (including leaving alone apparent imperfections that happen to work) and then finding out what that rifle configuration needs to shoot at it's best. This includes 'to jump' or not and a load that is sweet for that particular rifle and like women they are all different and unpredictable. :wink: :D

Barry Davies once told me that you can't make a rifle shoot with what you think it should shoot, you have to find out what the rifle wants to shoot with. I had already found this by trial and error but they are very wise words all the same.

Lynn

mick l
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:37 am
Location: north west vic

#20 Postby mick l » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:38 pm

Rob,
Are you finding much difference in weight of the 80gr MK box to box or batch to batch.
Also have you had a play with the 90grMK yet?I hear some good reports on them,do you think we will see them legal in the near future?
Has anyone seen the new "dyer"yet?
regards
mick

littlebang556
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am

#21 Postby littlebang556 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:41 pm

Rob,
Are you finding much difference in weight of the 80gr MK box to box or batch to batch.
Also have you had a play with the 90grMK yet?I hear some good reports on them,do you think we will see them legal in the near future?
Has anyone seen the new "dyer"yet?
regards
mick

Mick,
Box to box there is not much difference but I do find just 0.6gn deviation in individual weights (not all that bad) and for my setup I find that exactly 80.0gn work the best then 80.1gn next.
No I have not played with the 90 grainers as my barrel twist is not fast enough, only 7.7T and although I think they will be a good thing, I don't think I will bother whilst I am having such success. Besides, I hate to think how soon one would have to replace a worn out barrel with the twist rates required...not on my budget!!!
I do however think that the NRAA will have to seriously look at including them in the list of projectiles for use if nothing else becomes available.
That takes me to my next question, "new Dyer" is there talk that they are going to produce a .223 projectile?
On a final note, I am still enjoying continued success in fullbore, in the pouring rain (providing close to zero visibility, check scorers had chairs on their heads for umbrellas whist everyone else sat it out in their cars "whimps" "or am I just mad") I have managed another double possible, this time from 600m but with just 10V's this time, the weather gods really tested me out...bastards!!!

Cheers for now Mike and All

Rob Alman
______________________________
Fullbore = 5.56mm = 100.20 = smile
A.K.A........THE DREMELATOR
PUT Busselton RIFLE RANGE ON YOUR SHOOTING CALENDAR...THE GOLDEN BULLET...3rd Weekend In May. http://www.busseltonrc.com

mick l
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:37 am
Location: north west vic

#22 Postby mick l » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:51 pm

Rob,
Even in the rain you are still on fire!!!!!!
The "new dyer" is in .308 I havent heard if .223 is to come.
If .1gn is making a difference how many get tossed out of a box?
Regards
mick

littlebang556
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am

#23 Postby littlebang556 » Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:34 pm

Hi Mike,

When your hot your hot, and when your not your not.
I just hope a little of the mud sticks and I can continue with such success but if it doesn't, being shoulder to shoulder with my mates is all that I ask.

Toss WHAT!!! No way I can't afford to toss anything away but I am lucky enough to know someone that uses them for other than target shooting and takes a few off my hands.
Apart from that up until recently I had been coaching a new member at the club and he was using my rifle with projectiles not weighing 80.0 or 80.1.

My last batch of 1000 (2x500)was:
79.8=002
79.9=096
80.0=209
80.1=462
80.2=163
80.3=043
80.4=025
5 hours later.

Like I said before, I don't bother with weighing my brass.
If I did, it wouldn't take long as all I have is 130.

Regards

Rob Alman
______________________________
Fullbore = 5.56mm = 100.20 = smile
A.K.A........THE DREMELATOR
PUT Busselton RIFLE RANGE ON YOUR SHOOTING CALENDAR...THE GOLDEN BULLET...3rd Weekend In May. http://www.busseltonrc.com

mick l
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:37 am
Location: north west vic

#24 Postby mick l » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:32 am

Barry,
Some info further to your thourghts on lock times,
this has been lifted from another fourm.
hope this is of help.
here is the whole post.............
regards
mick

From: bartb@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt)
Subject: Re: lock times?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site

john cummings (cumminj@clemson.clemson.edu) wrote:

: Does anyone have any info on modern rifle trigger lock times?

First, understand that lock time is how long it is between the trigger
sear's disengagement and when the firing pin strikes the primer's cup.
Custom triggers oft times reduce lock time as they have lighter-weight
sear pieces or other moving parts whose mass can slow down lock times.

Winchester M70s have about .003 second, or 3 millisecond (ms) lock times with
their standard 23-pound firing pin spring. A 30-pound spring reduces that
to about 2.3 ms. With a titanium firing pin, lock time goes down to about
1.8 ms. These numbers are for the long actions; the new short actions have
lock times about 15% less due to their shorter firing pin being lighter.

Remington's M700 rifles have about a 2.5 ms lock time with their 26-lb.
firing pin spring. A 32-lb. spring takes that down to about 2 ms and the
addition of a titanium firing pin get it to about 1.6 ms. Again, these
are for the long actions; short ones have about 15% less lock time.

Ruger M77s have about 3.4 ms lock time and I don't know of anybody making
stronger firing pin springs for these long actions. I would guess short
actions would have slightly shorter lock times.

Paramount actions have about a 1.3 ms lock time with their 55-lb. spring
driving a light-weight firing pin about one-tenth of an inch to the primer.
That's the fastest production lock time for any rifle.

Anschutz 1400 series target rifles used to be about 2.3 ms. Starting with
their 1800 series, that got reduced to about 1.7 ms. Their new 2000 series
has about 1.5 ms so I'm told.

Mauser actions based on the original '98 design have rather slow lock times
of about 4 to 5 ms. Their long firing pin travel and weaker firing pin
spring is the reason why.

Springfield 1903s and Enfield 1917s have about the same lock time as Mausers;
around 4 to 5 ms.

Some benchrest actions (Stolle, Hall, DGA and others) have lock times
about 1.7 to 2.1 ms. As these rifles are shot from rests, lock times can
be longer and all will be fine.

Regarding your comment:

: My target .22 purports to have a 0.04 sec
: lock time, and the manufacturer claims
: that this has been reduced for their most
: recent release.

That's a 40 ms lock time; rather slow in my opinion. What make is your
target .22 rifle? Could your decimal point be off somewhat?

BB

littlebang556
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am

Lock Time

#25 Postby littlebang556 » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:05 pm

Interesting reading Mick and surly data that I will store in my good pile for future reference.
I am unsure of my actual lock time and if someone could let me know how best I could measure this I am sure it would help me tune my rifle even more.

Thanks

Rob Alman
______________________________
Fullbore = 5.56mm = 100.20 = smile
A.K.A........THE DREMELATOR
PUT Busselton RIFLE RANGE ON YOUR SHOOTING CALENDAR...THE GOLDEN BULLET...3rd Weekend In May. http://www.busseltonrc.com

mick l
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:37 am
Location: north west vic

Lock times

#26 Postby mick l » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:31 pm

Rob,
As yet no one can tell us the lock time of an omark(and maybe it doesnt matter),only info i can get say's they are fast.
Might go in the class of a rem700?



Some more info to file under useless..........

Barnard,from their web sight....
LOCK TIME 1.7 MICRO SECONDS CALCULATED

RPA,from their web sight
Quadlock
Short firing pin travel for fast lock-times (less than 1.2 milliseconds)
Quadlite
Short firing pin travel for fast lock times (less than 1.5 milliseconds)


CG Millennium
Calculated lock time 1m.sec

Of course if the nut behind the but is not in the grove nothing much else matters
regards
mick

littlebang556
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am

Double Possibles Continue

#27 Postby littlebang556 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:58 am

100.14 50.4+50.10
100.16 50.7+50.9
100.20 50.10 x 2
100.10 50.3+50.7 In pouring rain
100.15 50.10+50.5 Today from 700

Total 500.75 or 100.15 av

I think this is awesome but the missus STILL won't let me take my rifle to bed, anyone have any ideas that might change her mind?

Regards

Rob Alman
______________________________
Fullbore = 5.56mm = 100.20 = smile
A.K.A........THE DREMELATOR
PUT Busselton RIFLE RANGE ON YOUR SHOOTING CALENDAR...THE GOLDEN BULLET...3rd Weekend In May. http://www.busseltonrc.com

Ken L
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:53 am
Location: Maclean NSW

#28 Postby Ken L » Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:56 am

I think this is awesome but the missus STILL won't let me take my rifle to bed, anyone have any ideas that might change her mind?

The very thought of rolling over in bed and encountering something cold and hard brings out painfull memories of my :evil: ex-wife.
:(

Lynn Otto
Posts: 1121
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:56 pm
Location: SA

#29 Postby Lynn Otto » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:48 pm

:lol: :lol: From a female point of view - best of luck, don't like your chances :lol: :lol:

littlebang556
Posts: 344
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:04 am

On the firing line.

#30 Postby littlebang556 » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:22 am

I had to try Lynn!

Somehow I think if I could get the rifle into the bed the good lady might just hijack it to make sure my snooring arse stays out.
Ummmmm...Best I just leave it in the safe for now.

Regards

Rob Alman
______________________________
Fullbore = 5.56mm = 100.20 = smile
A.K.A........THE DREMELATOR
PUT Busselton RIFLE RANGE ON YOUR SHOOTING CALENDAR...THE GOLDEN BULLET...3rd Weekend In May. http://www.busseltonrc.com


Return to “Equipment & Technical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: B4408 and 30 guests