280 AI - Load development - Stage one

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ecomeat
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280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#1 Postby ecomeat » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:23 pm

Like a couple of other F Open shooters that I know of, I am starting to play with a new 280 AI, chambered by Matt Paroz (re chambered actually, as Macguru had put 200 rounds through it as a 280AI, but it needed to be rethreaded to fit my BAT Model M and came in at 28.5" in length.
I absolutely love my 284 Win, and have learnt enough about it to do OK in competition occasionally, but also wanted a "fun gun" for really windy days at long range, where I could chase a higher speed node than the very reliable 2820 fps or so that the 180 gr Bergers do so well at consistently.

Matt and others recommend AR2217 for the 280 Ackley Improved but I couldn't source any at short notice here in Qld, so opted to go with 2213sc (plenty in my cupboard) looking at Velocities and pressure signs.
I hoped to get 180 gr Berger VLDs to around 2940-2960 without any safety issues.
I am thrilled to report that it did way over that, very easily and with only minimal pressure signs at the upper end.

After working with the 284 Win for two years, with it's rather short neck, the long neck on the 280AI case took some getting used to, as it looks like I can load virtually any bullet, over a wide range of seating depths and never have to worry about donuts.
These loads were all based on a jam of approx ten thousandths of an inch.
Cases are the Custom Nosler 280 AI brass that is match prepped for use straight out of the box.

So using 2213sc, (and my lot #MEM 5195 is a very slow one compared to previous lots) I started at a very modest 56 gr for about 2735 fps, and worked up in 3 and 4 shots at 0.5 gr intervals, all the way to 62 gr.
60.5 gr averaged 2945 fps and is the area where I will now get serious and do some proper load development. ES over just the three shots was an encouraging 6 fps
61 gr averaged 2882 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 21 fps
61.5 gr averaged 3008 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 20 fps
62 gr averaged. 3042 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 24 fps.
Action is a quality BAT Model M two lug, and even at 62 gr there was no sign whatsoever of any sticky bolt lift, and no "click" at all.
Primers were definitely flat at 61.0 and above but I am quite sure that 3100 fps with a 180 Berger VLD would easily be safely obtainable if I wanted to go there.........but I don't ! I figure that if world class shooters like Dave Mac, Mike Waites, Geoff Krakey and co run at around 2950 then that's more than enough for me.

At 58.0 gr, (and 2832 fps avg over 4 shots with an ES of 34) the CCIBR2 primers were only just starting to show the very slightest signs of beginning to flatten.

As expected, Matt Paroz's work was absolutely top class, as well as being prompt, courteous and very reasonably priced, and after screwing in this new barrel and putting a scope back on, the first shot at 300 yards was just 57mm high and 20mm left of a previous 284 barrels zero.
My greatest fear in constantly switching barrels is to miss the target on the first shot, but that's obviously not not much of a worry with LRP doing the work !

Whilst no accuracy work has been done yet, it's nice to know that the 280AI, in a top quality target action with a 28.5" Trueflite barrel can easily got to the 2950 fps approx that I was hoping for, and that if I chose to, it could easily add another 150 fps to that.
Next it's time to try and tune the load, playing with seating depths and primers...............safe in the knowledge tha the 280AI can equal the 7SAUM, at least in velocity, with 180gr Bergers.
God I love this sport :D :D
Tony
Extreme accuracy and precision shooting at long range can be a very addictive pastime.

Brad Y
Posts: 2181
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#2 Postby Brad Y » Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:43 pm

Tony Berry- speed demon extraordinaire!

Keep us updated with how it goes please sir.

And you have the opposite problem to us. Can get plenty of 2217 but no 2213sc (or 2209 or 2208 and 2206h running low as well. Off topic, but winchester are fricking useless!

Seddo
Posts: 555
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:56 pm
Location: Latrobe Valley

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#3 Postby Seddo » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:29 pm

Thanks for the load data! It does look promising.
----------------------
Seddo

Moe City Rifle Club

lewis reynolds
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:37 pm
Location: sawyers gully

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#4 Postby lewis reynolds » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:52 pm

Keep us updated TonyI have LRP 280 AI barrel sitting in the safe waiting for some brass.. Load data is handy :D

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#5 Postby plumbs7 » Wed May 24, 2017 7:48 pm

ecomeat wrote:Like a couple of other F Open shooters that I know of, I am starting to play with a new 280 AI, chambered by Matt Paroz (re chambered actually, as Macguru had put 200 rounds through it as a 280AI, but it needed to be rethreaded to fit my BAT Model M and came in at 28.5" in length.
I absolutely love my 284 Win, and have learnt enough about it to do OK in competition occasionally, but also wanted a "fun gun" for really windy days at long range, where I could chase a higher speed node than the very reliable 2820 fps or so that the 180 gr Bergers do so well at consistently.

Matt and others recommend AR2217 for the 280 Ackley Improved but I couldn't source any at short notice here in Qld, so opted to go with 2213sc (plenty in my cupboard) looking at Velocities and pressure signs.
I hoped to get 180 gr Berger VLDs to around 2940-2960 without any safety issues.
I am thrilled to report that it did way over that, very easily and with only minimal pressure signs at the upper end.

After working with the 284 Win for two years, with it's rather short neck, the long neck on the 280AI case took some getting used to, as it looks like I can load virtually any bullet, over a wide range of seating depths and never have to worry about donuts.
These loads were all based on a jam of approx ten thousandths of an inch.
Cases are the Custom Nosler 280 AI brass that is match prepped for use straight out of the box.

So using 2213sc, (and my lot #MEM 5195 is a very slow one compared to previous lots) I started at a very modest 56 gr for about 2735 fps, and worked up in 3 and 4 shots at 0.5 gr intervals, all the way to 62 gr.
60.5 gr averaged 2945 fps and is the area where I will now get serious and do some proper load development. ES over just the three shots was an encouraging 6 fps
61 gr averaged 2882 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 21 fps
61.5 gr averaged 3008 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 20 fps
62 gr averaged. 3042 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 24 fps.
Action is a quality BAT Model M two lug, and even at 62 gr there was no sign whatsoever of any sticky bolt lift, and no "click" at all.
Primers were definitely flat at 61.0 and above but I am quite sure that 3100 fps with a 180 Berger VLD would easily be safely obtainable if I wanted to go there.........but I don't ! I figure that if world class shooters like Dave Mac, Mike Waites, Geoff Krakey and co run at around 2950 then that's more than enough for me.

At 58.0 gr, (and 2832 fps avg over 4 shots with an ES of 34) the CCIBR2 primers were only just starting to show the very slightest signs of beginning to flatten.

As expected, Matt Paroz's work was absolutely top class, as well as being prompt, courteous and very reasonably priced, and after screwing in this new barrel and putting a scope back on, the first shot at 300 yards was just 57mm high and 20mm left of a previous 284 barrels zero.
My greatest fear in constantly switching barrels is to miss the target on the first shot, but that's obviously not not much of a worry with LRP doing the work !

Whilst no accuracy work has been done yet, it's nice to know that the 280AI, in a top quality target action with a 28.5" Trueflite barrel can easily got to the 2950 fps approx that I was hoping for, and that if I chose to, it could easily add another 150 fps to that.
Next it's time to try and tune the load, playing with seating depths and primers...............safe in the knowledge tha the 280AI can equal the 7SAUM, at least in velocity, with 180gr Bergers.
God I love this sport :D :D
Tony

Tony , I didn't know you had an 280 Ai ! Some very helpful load data there . Just wandering what loads and data people are getting with ar 2217 ? Is it better than ar 2213 sc ? I have some 2213 sc in the cupboard already !

Tony I never saw u shoot this cal ?? How did it turn out ?
I ordered brass today and barrel is done ! Won't be ready for the Nats though ! Too soon ! Qld Queens I think I'll have ready for the Ton ! This barrel is only coming out for windy days and long ranges !

willow
Posts: 567
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#6 Postby willow » Wed May 24, 2017 8:22 pm

plumbs7 wrote:
ecomeat wrote:Like a couple of other F Open shooters that I know of, I am starting to play with a new 280 AI, chambered by Matt Paroz (re chambered actually, as Macguru had put 200 rounds through it as a 280AI, but it needed to be rethreaded to fit my BAT Model M and came in at 28.5" in length.
I absolutely love my 284 Win, and have learnt enough about it to do OK in competition occasionally, but also wanted a "fun gun" for really windy days at long range, where I could chase a higher speed node than the very reliable 2820 fps or so that the 180 gr Bergers do so well at consistently.

Matt and others recommend AR2217 for the 280 Ackley Improved but I couldn't source any at short notice here in Qld, so opted to go with 2213sc (plenty in my cupboard) looking at Velocities and pressure signs.
I hoped to get 180 gr Berger VLDs to around 2940-2960 without any safety issues.
I am thrilled to report that it did way over that, very easily and with only minimal pressure signs at the upper end.

After working with the 284 Win for two years, with it's rather short neck, the long neck on the 280AI case took some getting used to, as it looks like I can load virtually any bullet, over a wide range of seating depths and never have to worry about donuts.
These loads were all based on a jam of approx ten thousandths of an inch.
Cases are the Custom Nosler 280 AI brass that is match prepped for use straight out of the box.

So using 2213sc, (and my lot #MEM 5195 is a very slow one compared to previous lots) I started at a very modest 56 gr for about 2735 fps, and worked up in 3 and 4 shots at 0.5 gr intervals, all the way to 62 gr.
60.5 gr averaged 2945 fps and is the area where I will now get serious and do some proper load development. ES over just the three shots was an encouraging 6 fps
61 gr averaged 2882 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 21 fps
61.5 gr averaged 3008 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 20 fps
62 gr averaged. 3042 fps for 3 shots with an ES of 24 fps.
Action is a quality BAT Model M two lug, and even at 62 gr there was no sign whatsoever of any sticky bolt lift, and no "click" at all.
Primers were definitely flat at 61.0 and above but I am quite sure that 3100 fps with a 180 Berger VLD would easily be safely obtainable if I wanted to go there.........but I don't ! I figure that if world class shooters like Dave Mac, Mike Waites, Geoff Krakey and co run at around 2950 then that's more than enough for me.

At 58.0 gr, (and 2832 fps avg over 4 shots with an ES of 34) the CCIBR2 primers were only just starting to show the very slightest signs of beginning to flatten.

As expected, Matt Paroz's work was absolutely top class, as well as being prompt, courteous and very reasonably priced, and after screwing in this new barrel and putting a scope back on, the first shot at 300 yards was just 57mm high and 20mm left of a previous 284 barrels zero.
My greatest fear in constantly switching barrels is to miss the target on the first shot, but that's obviously not not much of a worry with LRP doing the work !

Whilst no accuracy work has been done yet, it's nice to know that the 280AI, in a top quality target action with a 28.5" Trueflite barrel can easily got to the 2950 fps approx that I was hoping for, and that if I chose to, it could easily add another 150 fps to that.
Next it's time to try and tune the load, playing with seating depths and primers...............safe in the knowledge tha the 280AI can equal the 7SAUM, at least in velocity, with 180gr Bergers.
God I love this sport :D :D
Tony

Tony , I didn't know you had an 280 Ai ! Some very helpful load data there . Just wandering what loads and data people are getting with ar 2217 ? Is it better than ar 2213 sc ? I have some 2213 sc in the cupboard already !

Tony I never saw u shoot this cal ?? How did it turn out ?
I ordered brass today and barrel is done ! Won't be ready for the Nats though ! Too soon ! Qld Queens I think I'll have ready for the Ton ! This barrel is only coming out for windy days and long ranges !


I ran my 280AI at 800 metres last weekend and didn't drop a shot (conditions were good though). Running 59.4gr of 2217 behind Berger 180gr VLDs netted me an average of 2835fps with an SD of 7. I ran a Labradar against it and am confident I can improve the SD but need a better set of scales first as I currently use a Lyman Gen 5. I'm very happy with this load for now though and see no reason to push more powder in it. If I want to hit 2950fps I'd just put 59gr of 2213sc in there but I don't think it is as consistent as 2217.

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#7 Postby plumbs7 » Wed May 24, 2017 8:34 pm

Thanks Willow for your help! It's very daunting developing a calibre ! I've been trolling the net and it seems 2217 is the go to powder for this cartridge. Willow I'm aiming pardon the pun for 2930
To the me limit of 2950 fps . The node I've been told are are around 2920-30 to 2950-70 which would get me booked for speeding at Belmont ! I don't know if people are interested or not , but I might share a bit of the load development just for interest sake ? I've got a good feeling about this cal and I love ackleys ! I've got a starting load thanks you Willow of around 59 gr and fireform load of 50.1 of ar 2209 read from another thread .
It's going to be fun to see this Thing develope!
Ps Cci be 2 primers??

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#8 Postby plumbs7 » Wed May 24, 2017 8:41 pm

Actually, I won't torture you guys again with another AI blog ! Very sorry for the last one ! :shock:

willow
Posts: 567
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#9 Postby willow » Wed May 24, 2017 8:59 pm

plumbs7 wrote:Thanks Willow for your help! It's very daunting developing a calibre ! I've been trolling the net and it seems 2217 is the go to powder for this cartridge. Willow I'm aiming pardon the pun for 2930
To the me limit of 2950 fps . The node I've been told are are around 2920-30 to 2950-70 which would get me booked for speeding at Belmont ! I don't know if people are interested or not , but I might share a bit of the load development just for interest sake ? I've got a good feeling about this cal and I love ackleys ! I've got a starting load thanks you Willow of around 59 gr and fireform load of 50.1 of ar 2209 read from another thread .
It's going to be fun to see this Thing develope!
Ps Cci be 2 primers??


I think a couple of SA guys have got their 280AIs running around 2950 using 2217. The case would have to be at capacity though. I'll be interested to see what your load development turns up. And yes, I use CCI BR2 primers.

jcinsa
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Adelaide Hills

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#10 Postby jcinsa » Wed May 24, 2017 9:39 pm

I have a 280 AI that I'm playing around with, and can get over 3000 fps with 62 gns of 2217 behind a 180 gn hybrid.

Not sure about case life with this load :)

60.8 gns 2217 shows promising accuracy at 2950

I'm also evaluating 59.8 gns 2217 which gives 2850, and also has encouraging accuracy.

All with 10 thou jump, and CCI 200 primers

Barrel is a 8.5 twist 5R Kreiger

I'm testing these loads at 1000 on Saturday, and that will clock the barrel to 200 rounds.

Regards John
Argue with a fool, and all the casual observer will see is two fools arguing.

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#11 Postby plumbs7 » Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

Thanks heaps ! I'll give 2217 and 2213 sc a go ! Looks like I can burn both and the one that is not as good I can burn at club or fire forming !

Like I said I'll let u know just a little bit ! No blog !

Tim N
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:18 pm
Location: Branxton NSW

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#12 Postby Tim N » Thu May 25, 2017 8:43 am

Powder preference seems to be a localised thing, I have been using 2209 and BR2's and VLDs jamb or jump.
The 280AI has more capacity than the SAUM.
Can't give you much more info than that other than I have been very happy with my first 280AI.
This can become a blog if you like, no need for appologies :)
We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training. Archilochos 680-645 BC

Steve N
Posts: 462
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Gippsland Victoria.

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#13 Postby Steve N » Thu May 25, 2017 8:59 am

I would like a blog.

willow
Posts: 567
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:51 pm

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#14 Postby willow » Thu May 25, 2017 4:02 pm

jcinsa wrote:I have a 280 AI that I'm playing around with, and can get over 3000 fps with 62 gns of 2217 behind a 180 gn hybrid.

Not sure about case life with this load :)

60.8 gns 2217 shows promising accuracy at 2950

I'm also evaluating 59.8 gns 2217 which gives 2850, and also has encouraging accuracy.

All with 10 thou jump, and CCI 200 primers

Barrel is a 8.5 twist 5R Kreiger

I'm testing these loads at 1000 on Saturday, and that will clock the barrel to 200 rounds.

Regards John


Cheers for that info John. I have to fly back to Perth on Sunday but I may run a practice stage load of 60.8gr when I return to Sydney in July to see how it looks.

plumbs7
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:32 am
Location: Dalby/ Tara Rifle Club

Re: 280 AI - Load development - Stage one

#15 Postby plumbs7 » Thu May 25, 2017 4:31 pm

Ok , I'll start an info Blog showing cream of wheat fire forming and normal fire forming through to accuracy development. Where other skilled people can post their loads etc ! It's probably needed as just like the 7/08 Ai , there is nothing on the internet about 280 Ai , well target loads anyway!
Regards Graham


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