Borescope evidence of the death of a very good barrel

[johnk]

How the world has changed. I recall the instructions that came with the original JB when I purchased it in the 60s/70s - apply with a patch on a one size smaller brush.

[pjifl]

And maybe those instructions to use JB on a patch around an undersized brush are very sensible. But, as Frank has mentioned, a lot depends on the actual bristles and how much undersized etc. So it finally comes down to - 'in the hands of the operator'.

Many bronze brushes seem to me to be oversized. I go through many bronze brushes. But never in a barrel. I clean case necks out with an undersized bronze brush !!!

Peter Smith.

[johnk]

Peter, I have no argument with Frank. About the same time, the recommended method of deoiling old military stocks according to one author was to paint them with a thick slurry of perchlorethylene (or was it trychlor?)& chalk powder and let the sun draw the oil into the chalk.

[Brad Y]

I wonder is a totally different mindset required when cleaning 5r barrels? I clean my maddco barrels with a bronze brush one way only, then when carbon builds I will use a nylon brush with jb or iosso depending on the severity of fouling. These obviously have square lands and fouling can get stuck in there real good. Do the 5r barrels seem to clean up easier with patches and not brushes than conventional rifling?

[watrob]

Just wondering are both your Bartlein barrels are from the same batch, did you buy them from the same dealer, the reason I ask is there was a batch of Krieger barrels that came into the country few years back that were referred to as having soft steel. One of my Krieger barrel blanks that was machined by a local gunsmith back in Sept 2016 mention he felt the steel was soft when he chambered and profiled the barrel.

Considering gunsmith's machine a large number of barrels a year they would certainly know what there taking about. I don't know how true this is but someone once told me barrel steel comes in 3 hardness variations, the middle version is used for button barrels as the hardest version gets damaged or breaks the button when pushed or pulled thru. Barrels are only as good as the steel there made from and you would have to expect a bad batch of steel every now & then.

Anyway I now ask the gunsmith every time I get new match grade barrel to inspect the barrel before machining and if he feels its soft I replace it, its only happened once so far.

[bolster55]

Watrob, I'll have to talk to the gunsmith regarding supplier, he will have the serial number, this may help me.

[watrob]

Put it down to live & learn, just because its new does not mean its perfect, do you think the importer puts a bore scope down every barrel they import, and unless you do a lot of business with your gunsmith you rely on him to tell you if there is problem with a barrel, 99% of gunsmith do! but that barrel of yours I believe would have had that imperfection from manufacture and or its very soft in parts of the barrel length to sustain that sort of damage considering you clean all your other barrels the same way and they seem ok?

I won't say which brand of barrels but I know of another lot of barrels a few years ago that came into Australia that the twist rate was supposed to be in the teens and when tested because they would not stabilise bullets had twists rates in the twenties?

Send the barrel back and ask them to tell you what they think went wrong with the barrel? the trouble with us Australians we don't complain enough, does not matter which brand of barrel you buy, if its a faulty barrel its a faulty barrel, if the manufacturer can explain and say its not a manufacturing problem or soft steel and your happy with that so be it, but you need to ask? for your own peace of mind.

These barrel manufactures do not make the steel, they buy it, do you think they x-ray each barrel, our family was involved in building the 750 feet long jacket oil platform in Bass Straight Victoria in the 1970's, every weld and piece of steel was x-rayed, and any fault or cracked weld was cut out and redone, you get what you pay for!

I benchrest shoot 100 & 200 yards with 6PPC & 30 BR etc and clean (with brass brush) after each group (5 to 8 rounds including sighters) as does everyone else shooting this discipline and have not seen anyone wear out a barrel from cleaning, if this was the case I would be replacing barrels after 200 rounds because their not accurate anymore? I have shot out several barrels but not from over cleaning and if those marks are from cleaning then the steel has to be soft in that area.

[bolster55]

At the moment I'm open minded, I've taken about 16 pics of the internal damage and emailed to the barrel maker, with the communication I've had so far with them they seem to be very decent people.I'll now wait and see what they think caused the damage.
I worked in Bass Strait in the early 80's, built the last 4 jackets and a pipeline.
Cheers.

[watrob]

They were the good times, I met Red Adair when he came out here to put out that oil rig gas fire in Bass Straight with his couple hundred thousand super rubber balls, then decided not to use them. We also salvaged the 200 feet vessel that blew up when the guy from CIG loading the liquid oxygen screwed the valve out and crystalized the steel deck, it cracked up it went with a big bang, my older brother was walking down the pier to do some welding on the vessel when it went up.

We painted the Glomar 3 and the Choc-tor (think that how you spell it) floating drilling platform, I could tell some stories about that, we built the railway line from Barry's beach where the jackets were built to Welshpool.

The 1970's were the heady times, by the 80's it started to slow down, it did bring a lot income to area for the locals, as they say all good things come to an end.

[Barry Davies]

For what it's worth.
Jenny, Adam and myself currently run six rifles ( two each , 4 x308, 1x 6mm and 1 x 6.5mm ) all Maddco barrels.
In total we have gone thru ( including current usage ) 16 Stainless barrels.
Some of these have fired in excess of 3500 rounds and one is over 5000.
ALL have been cleaned with bronze brushes and Short Scrub -- nothing else.
Never had one scrub out thru cleaning and never had one come up with " funny " gouge marks .
Just recently had two 3700 round barrels rechambered and crowned and they look like new.
What do you blokes do to your barrels ???

[ecomeat]

A shooter sent me a PM that i just answered, asking that given my experience with " this" barrel that the thread was about, would i still recommend Bartlein.
My answer is copied here because i think its relevant. The guy doing the cleaning is the only one responsible for what get shoved down any barrel, and for the entire cleaning process. Bartlein make superbly accurate barrels, but any fool can wreck one if they try had enough. I managed to do it. Thankfully some great work by Peter Smith and David McNamara laid the whole story out for the world to benefit from. Frank at Bartlein and Craig at 7mm have got a rock solid friendship and professional relationship, and a constant supply of Bartlein barrels into Australia is the end result.


Yes mate, i absolutely recommend them and dont use anything else.
Nor do i ever recommend anything else. They are the ultimate professionals at Bartlein with both knowledge and technical skills, and will make basically anything if you are prepared to wait. Any twist, gain twists, different bore diametrs etc etc are all possible.
What happened with mine was no fault whatsoever of Bartleins. It was 100% my doing. Using a paste on a wire brush with a non turning rod on a barrel with canted lands was all my own mistake/choice so no way do i attribute any of that to Bartlein.
I simply tell anyone who i talk to that they have to remember that canted lands absolutely do make it easier for a jag or brush to "skip" down he bore instead of turning with the twist rate of the lands, and therefore it is really, really important that they only use well maintained high quality rods and that they always ensure that their rod is turning.
With that barrel that i killed, i didnt know, and i didnt look. At the end of the day, Frank Green replaced my barrel very promptly, and it all led to Bartlein now having a significant presence in our Australian market which is a very good thing.
Regards
Tony

[johnk]

Since I've got a borescope, I've been meaning to search out one of my .308 barrels that was looked at with all the other match rifle team barrels a decade or so back. At that time, the guy wielding the scope said that he could see striations mid length of the barrel, but as it was shooting OK & due to be replaced, we didn't make a fuss about it. It would have been JBed around every 300 rounds with a patch on a .270 bronze brush that I mentioned earlier.

[pavlovaw]

If that was the case all my target barrels would be smooth bore by now especially my 308 with 8650 rounds with a rechamber at 8500. Not to mention what any roo shooters barrels would look like. No it looks more like a dodgy batch of steel causing that problem mate. Were the two barrels bought from the same batch or different batches? Did the smith mention anything about noticing the steel may have been a bit softer and easier to machine when chambering?

[bolster55]

johnk, would be good to see that 308 barrel's internals.

pavlovaw, The barrels were purchased about 10 months apart, I would think that would make them different batch numbers. I have 223 barrels that have done about 2500 rounds, hot loads, cleaned the same, no "grooves/striations" in them.
Before I get destructive testing done I will refit this barrel and do some testing in parallel with another rifle, same cal.