Annealing necks ...good thing or bad thing?

[Phil D]

I mate I'm knocking up one of these late you know how I go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msgcZyYeTqM

Phil D

Wallumbilla RC

[igidoo]

Phil, I'm also in the process of making one of these from YouTube. Seem to work quite well. A bit of fun getting it to work and coming and coming up with some new ideas of streamlining it . can't shoot at night in town so may as well do something to do with the sport.

[plumbs7]

I mate I'm knocking up one of these late you know how I go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msgcZyYeTqM

Phil D

Wallumbilla RC

How is the best open shooter this side of the black stump!
Yeh let me know ! How did u go with ur plate ?

[plumbs7]

Wow this is great ... We are getting some real good contributions . Am I going to rush out tomorrow and buy a machine ???
Well let's just look at some results with the Rem
Old lap brass probably fired at least 6 times .
Wandai 300 60.4, 500 60.7
City v country 1000 58.2 300 57.5
Dalby 600. 60.4 very windy 12 mph 300 66.3 lighter conditions.
Muckadilla 500 56.5 very beepen windy.
Warwick 59.2 with over annealed brass. ( most probably the stuff I didn't cook! ).
At the end of the day I think the venerable .308 NATO isn't all that fussy !
Also you still have to be a brilliant wind reader... Better than the person next to you.

I guess we will see if I'm right at the Nats .
Best wishes to all and thanks for ur thoughts , I may look at one in the future! Regards Graham .

[plumbs7]

This is a photo of a 22-250 case from a mate of mine. What's wrong with this.
Lucky not to blow up in his face !
This is what not to do when annealing . He also gave me this link on 6 mm br about annealing .

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

[mike H]

A few details of how your mate managed this would be interesting .

[plumbs7]

Hi Malcom , this is a quote of his reply . He is a young feller I'm just started mentoring and try to get into the sport .

"Anneal or wreck the case? I think it was a case I used to experiment with and some how go into a loading batch ( I think).

At one stage I cooked a few cases on purpose to see how far I could push them till the base got too soft. I got a good case and clamped them with vice grips till it just started to deform. Then used that as a gauge to see how soft the cases where getting when I over cooked them.... The bases can get super soft and it's irreversible, that's why I sit them in about 1/2 in to 3/4 in of
Water"

"Yeah I just like to experiment. Seem to learn the best lessons when you fill the ute with smoke 😳"DS

Sounds like a future f open shooter!

Best wish Graham.
Ps it official .. I'm a osfclass addict ! I'll try and cut down on my post😉

[johnk]

Sounds like a future f open shooter!

Or a former shooter.....

[AlanF]

G'day all,
I'm just a bit curious as to why you anneal after every firing? I've got cases here that I've never annealed and my various target rifles still shoot more accurately than I can drive them.
I've never annealed my 6PPC cases and they last the life of a barrel (2500-3000rds @ 20 cases per barrel)
Like I said, just curious.
Thanks
Cheerio Ned

Geoff,

I can think of two reasons why annealing your 6PPC is not necessary.
(1) You probably run very little neck clearance, so the brass is not worked much, in fact do you resize the necks at all? I know that some BR shooters don't. (2) Velocity spread is nowhere near as important for 100 and 200 yard shooting. Even 300 you can get away with spreads that would be completely unacceptable at the longs. Similarly, you can get away with throwing powder and not weighing for the shorts. I think you'd find most of the top 1000 yard BR shooters would anneal?

That said, I don't anneal, but Marty says he does, and he keeps beating me, so I may have to start annealing .

Alan

[plumbs7]

Sounds like a future f open shooter!

Or a former shooter.....

Yeh that's right he was lucky . Mate he is just starting out . I'm sure we've all done some stupid things at times .
What I meant was DS has a hunger for trying new techniques and experiments with new ideas . I'm sure he won't do it again . He graciously allowed me to post his failed experiment so other beginners don't do it again .
And end up in hospital.

Regards GS .

[Phil D]

Should you neck size before or after you annealing. I've always size before.

Ps igidoo I'm waiting for a new motor I'll get back to you when it fitted.


Thanks

Phil D

Wallumbilla RC

[ned kelly]

G'day all,
Alan, I simply apply the same techniques learnt from BR to FO and yes, I run about 2-3 thou clearance with neck to chamber clearance so much less work hardening in the neck, conversely, the ppc brass is resized about 120 times (3000 rds per barrel and 25 cases for that barrel) So that kind of proves the point to run either tight necks or no turn necks. I don't run fitted necks but do resize each time. I follow my general rule of 2; button size 2 thou less than loaded round neck diameter, loaded round neck 2 thou less than chamber dimension. Also I closely monitor and trim neck length to the shortest in the box of brass, neck turn, uniform primer pockets, deburr flash holes and use Redding competition dies and competition shell holders to control resizing, as I do with my 6PPC. Seems to work.....

Nevertheless. vertical stringing of the group in BR is to be avoided as it should be in F class for the same reasons, you need a flat waterlining group. If small ES & SD produces a flat waterline, tuning the load does the same then aren't the results the main game? FWIW I do own a chronograph but hardly use it, if the load has a flat waterline, personally, I don't care what the ES & SD are, they are just more things to worry about.

So far I haven't seen the need to anneal and it is mainly because the various techniques out there are not consistent enough, albeit, the annealing machines are very attractive but you would need to anneal a LOT of brass to justify the cost and it is probably more cost effective to buy enough brass for your barrel and go shoot the difference in powder and bullets (which probably would deliver even better outcomes in OPM's!)
Besides, in FO a new whizz bang cartridge comes along and there is a rush on dies, brass, bullets for said cartridge!

As to 1000yd BR I can't comment; I haven't shot it. Have you shot SR BR?


Again it comes down to having a precision built rifle, a solid proven loading technique and PRACTICE, PLENTY OF PRACTICE! Only then can anyone see if small things like annealing are making a difference. Any single factor missing in the quality of the rifle build and maintenance, reloading techniques or shooting techniques, makes any discussion on the small details a very moot point.

Food for thought.
Cheerio Ned

[DenisA]

Should you neck size before or after you annealing. I've always size before.

Ps igidoo I'm waiting for a new motor I'll get back to you when it fitted.


Thanks

Phil D

Wallumbilla RC

Hi Phil, I resize after annealing. I prefer to manipulate the brass after its been softened and for that reason it doesn't spring back from the bushing size.

[plumbs7]

I was talking to the Master yesterday about annealing and asked how he did it. I won't give his secrets away other than to say he does by hand .
I then asked ,"would you shoot a major comp straight after annealing !"

His reply was , " no , defiantly not . But after a firing at club level at least"

Next question was when and how often?
Reply : whenever they needed it !

So another view .

[Malcolm Hill]

Graham
I have no issues with shooting a comp after annealing. The fly target in the Events section was shot straight after annealing as was a 60.6 and 60.9 earlier in the day. Usually I make sure that all my cases are annealed and trimmed prior to a big comp to make sure there is minimal variation in seating pressure.
Regards Malcolm.