Trouble with Lee Collet

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BC
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:41 pm

Trouble with Lee Collet

#1 Postby BC » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:54 pm

Can anyone please help me with the troubles that suddenly appeared with my Lee Collet Die 308 Winchester.

I have been happily using this die for many years when suddenly out of the blue it buckled the shoulders of one of the cases. I found the collet closed and I had to reopen it. I cleaned it and I adjusted the die according to the instructions. I then resized twenty shells and I found the tension of the necks very different from one to the other. In some of them I could pull the bullet out by hand.

Can I fix this problem or I should I throw it out and buy a new one.

johnk
Posts: 2211
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

#2 Postby johnk » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:03 pm

If you can still strip the die (if all the components come out & aren't riveted so as to make them stick in the body, you're probably OK with that die. On the other hand, I collect Lee lock rings & .30 mandrels from users who have buggered their dies.

Try this. Can't be bothered posting a document, but this is in my opinion, the definitive procedure to use for Lee collet dies:

Using The Lee Collet Die.

I started using Lee collet dies when they first came on the market and have found that they are very good for the purposes for which they were designed .
I have found that there is a lack of understanding of how to use the die properly and as a result people fail to see the advantages that the die can deliver over standard neck sizing dies.
This is not the fault of the product , it is just a lack of understanding of how the die works and what it will feel like when you operate the press correctly.
Standard dies use a neck expanding ball on the decapping rod and size by extruding the neck through a hole and then drag the expander ball back through the inside neck.
The collet die achieves neck sizing by using a split collet to squeeze the outside of the case neck onto a central mandrel which has the decapping pin in it’s base .
One advantage is that there is no stretching or drawing action on the brass.
The inside neck diameter is controlled by the diameter of the mandrel and to some extent by the amount of adjustment of the die and the pressure applied to the press .
This results in less misalignment than can occur in standard dies because of any uneven neck wall thickness in the cases .
Cases will last longer in the neck area and require less trimming. If cases have very uneven neck wall thickness then this can cause problems for the collet die they definitely work smoother and more accurately with neck turned cases but it is not essential.
When you first receive the die unscrew the top cap and pull it apart check that everything is there also that the splits in the collet have nothing stuck in them then inspect the tapered surface on the top end of the collet and the internal taper of the insert to make sure there are no metal burs that might cause it to jamb.
Next get some good quality high pressure grease and put a smear onto the tapered surface of the collet .
Put it back together and screw it into the press just a few threads for now . The best type of press for this die is a press of moderate compound leverage that travels over centre .
Over centre means that when the ram reaches its full travel up it will stop and come back down a tiny amount even though the movement on the handle is continued through to the stop .
eg. is an RCBS Rockchucker.
This arrangement gives the best feel for a collet die sizing operation.
Place the shell holder in the ram and bring the ram up to full height then screw the die down until the collet skirt just touches on the shell holder , then lower the ram .
Take a case to be sized that has a clean neck inside and out and the mouth chamfered and place it in the shell holder.
Raise the ram gently feeling for resistance if none , lower the ram.
Screw the die down a bit at a time .
If you get lock up ( ram stops before going over centre) before the correct position is found then back it off and make sure the collet is loose and not jammed up in the die before continuing then raise the ram feeling for any resistance , keep repeating this until you feel the press handle resist against the case neck just at the top of the stroke as the press goes over centre and the handle kinder locks in place .
This takes much less force than a standard die and most people don’t believe any sizing has taken place .
Take the case out and try a projectile of the correct caliber to see how much sizing has taken place.
If it’s still too loose adjust the die down one eighth of a turn lock it finger tight only and try again .
Once the die is near the correct sizing position it takes very little movement of the die to achieve changes in neck seating tension .
This is where most people come undone , they move the die up and down too much and it either locks up or doesn’t size at all .
It will still size a case locking it up but you have no control over how much pressure is applied and some people lean on the press handle to the point of damaging the die. A press like the RCBS Rockchucker , that goes over centre each time gives you a definite stopping point for the ram and the pressure that you apply .
There is a small sweet spot for correct collet die adjustment and you must find it , once found , how sweet it is ! Advantages : With a press that travels over centre it is possible to adjust the neck seating tension within a very limited zone. No lubricant is normally required on the case necks during sizing .

If you still cant get enough neck tension to hold the bullet properly for a particular purpose then you will have to polish down the mandrel.
Be careful poilishing the mandrel down and only do it a bit at a time as a few thou can be removed pretty quickly if you overdo it.
You can't get extra neck tension by just applying more force. The amount of adjustment around the sweet spot is very limited and almost not noticable without carrying out tests.
For example , to go from a .001 neck tension to a .002 or .003 neck tension you would be talking about polishing down the mandrel.

There are some other advantages but I will leave you the pleasure of discovering them .
One disadvantage that I have found with the collet die is that it needs good vertical alignment of the case as it enters the die or case damage may result so go slowly.
Also some cases with a very thick internal base can cause problems with the mandrel coming in contact with the internal base before the sizing stroke is finished.
If pressure is continued the mandrel can push up against the top cap and cause damage . If you are getting lock up and cant get the right sizing sweet spot, then check that the mandrel is not too long for the case you can place a washer over the case and onto the shell holder and size down on that.
It will reduce the length of neck sized and give the mandrel more clearance. If it sizes Ok after adding the washer then the mandrel could be hitting the base.
This is not a usually problem once you learn how to use them .
The harder the brass is the more spring back it will have so very hard brass will exhibit less sizing than soft brass because it will spring away from the mandrel more. If this is happening to excess then use new cases or anneal the necks.
Freshly annealed brass can drag on the mandrel a bit in certain cases because it will spring back less and result in a tighter size diameter.
I have experienced it. I always use some dry lube on the inside and outside if I get any draging effect . Normally you dont need lube.
I make up a special batch 1/3 Fine Moly powder. 1/3 Pure graphite. 1/3 Aluminiumised lock graphite. Rub your fingers around the neck and It sticks very well to the necks by just dipping it in and out and tapping it to clear the inside neck . After a few cases it coats up the mandrel .
Other dry lubricants would work also.
Use the same process for normal neck sizing also.

I noticed a definite improvement in the accuracy of my 22-250Rem. as soon as I started using a Lee collet die instead of my original standard neck die.
Readers are encouraged to utilise the benefits of responsible reloading at all times. Although the author has taken care in the writing of these articles no responsibility can be taken by the author or publisher as a result of the use of this information.
John Valentine. © 21/01/2002.
Last edited by johnk on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Simon C
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Adelaide

#3 Postby Simon C » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:04 pm

I have had this happen before.

Doing a thorough++ clean of both the collet insert (ie the slots that form the collet) and the internal area of the die in which the taper is formed. If you have any slight burrs or embedded material, it can jam the collet as you have experienced.

This will most likely explain the variable neck tension as the collet is not consistently closing and springing back open.
"Aim small, miss small"

Simon

Brad Y
Posts: 2181
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:21 pm

#4 Postby Brad Y » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:24 pm

Had alot of success with the collet die. But only once I changed over press to the lyman crusher. When you lower the arm, you see the ram raise up to a certain point then go down slightly. With this press you can never over or under pressure a LCD.

When you get it take the guts out of the die and grease where the collet contacts the internal part of the die that closes it. Then give the mandrel a very quick go over with 1200 grit wet and dry (mandrel in a drill helps) to remove any rough finish, then I give it a polish with some autosol on a rag and finish it off with a good coat of oil buffed into it. I found that doing this was a bit better for the inside of the case necks and will give a whisker tighter neck tension which I like. Re assemble the die and make sure the cap on top is screwed down tight and your good to go. Over time you will need to pull the die apart, spray it clean with brake cleaner and re grease and go again.

I found if any dies started sticking the collet closed they were bastards and had to be replaced to get working properly. Lucky they are cheap. Wish they made them in 284 shehane because it would be all I would use for my no turn chamber.

BC
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:41 pm

Lee Collet

#5 Postby BC » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:19 am

Thanks for your suggestions. I have decided to get a new one. BC

johnk
Posts: 2211
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

#6 Postby johnk » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:34 am

Keep the lock ring. They are the best. Also the mandrel. You can spin it up in a drill with a large Jacobs style chuck if it has slots on the jaw at the right place to take that little stop washer at the top end & polish it with fine wet & dry to give a tighter neck if you need to - or cut the depriming pin short for those occasions when you reprime before you neck size :shock: .

Chris W
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:12 am
Location: Gippsland, Victoria

#7 Postby Chris W » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:00 pm

This is good info from all posters.

As a side note, you can get 3 packs of the excellent Lee die lock rings occasionally in Australia but always available from Brownells and for only a few bucks.

Steve N
Posts: 462
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 8:16 pm
Location: Gippsland Victoria.

#8 Postby Steve N » Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:40 pm

What is so good about the Lee lock rings? I thought a permanent locking type like the hornady or sinclair would be better. I usually replace the Lee ones especially on my sizing die so that i can just lock them at the right length.

johnk
Posts: 2211
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:55 pm
Location: Brisbane

#9 Postby johnk » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:43 pm

Yes, you don't have repeatability with the Lee lock ring unless you scribe the ring, the die body & the press to locate them constantly, but they address the press square which split rings don't & accommodate machining slop while screw locked rings tend not to.

Yer pays yer money & makes yer choice.


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